D&D, Technology, and Planned Obsolescence

[Umbran]

So, is this a valid concern? Will the cancellation of 4E support via Insider have much impact on those currently playing 4E? Are groups planning ahead for such an eventuality, and if so, in what way?

I'm sure there are groups that would be heavily impacted if they turned off the 4e DDI material. But, we should be clear that this is the choice of those groups - the print options are available, but they haven't chosen to buy.

Finally, what about 5E and technology? If more and more gameplay (and game prep) are moved online, and can be cut off any time the publisher desires, how much will that affect your decision whether or not to purchase the game?

My players vastly prefer not to have electronics at the table. They've said they don't mind if I use a laptop for reference and SFX, but having a ring of laptops around the table is not an option. So, if 5e cannot be well-played without electronic support, then they can kiss my cash goodbye.

But, honestly, I don't expect them to go that route with 5e. They'll design a game that can make really good use of online support, especially for the GM, but I expect it'll be a perfectly good game without that support.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So, if 5e cannot be well-played without electronic support, then they can kiss my cash goodbye.

Bottom line, that's how I feel as well.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Machete don't rent tabletop rpgs.

 

[delericho]

Likewise, I would expect that gaming groups that are dependent on Insider, especially the Character Builder and the Compendium, will be significantly impacted when (not if) WOTC stops supporting 4E. WOTC has already shown it is not willing to support older editions. I see no reason to expect that they would change their strategy when a new edition is released.

Indeed. I expect that when 5e hits, the 4e material will very quickly become unavailable on DDI.

It depends on how compatible 5e is with 4e, though - if they're pretty close, they'll only remove the old stuff as new versions are published, much as they do now.

So, is this a valid concern?

Yes and no. My guess is that there is a distinct "gamer half-life" - a lot of players get into the game, play for a few years, and then drop out. Edition changes would make little difference to such players - many might leave 'early' because of the change, but there would be a corresponding spike in new sales because of the new hotness.

I suspect a lot of other groups (probably the majority of the remainder) will just upgrade to the new edition anyway. There will be a lot of complaining... but then they'll upgrade anyway. (Some will stop playing entirely, and some will take advantage of cheap eBay prices to gain a 'hardcopy backup' of the books they haven't been buying.)

So, really, I don't think it's actually all that big a concern.

Finally, what about 5E and technology? If more and more gameplay (and game prep) are moved online, and can be cut off any time the publisher desires, how much will that affect your decision whether or not to purchase the game?

Owning content is a thing of the past. In games, movies, and music, the future is in rented content (via subscriptions) and/or pay-per-use. RPGs will be no different - 5e will no doubt take the DDI model to the next step, and quite likely encourage DMs to do their prep direct on WotC servers. It will be really convenient and easy to do so... provided you maintain the subscription.

As for me... no. I'm not interested in any RPG that requires an electronic component, or even any RPG that 'requires' one even as much as 4e does (that is, it's not strictly necessary, but I wouldn't play without). So, if WotC go further down that road, I won't be coming back.

 

[wingsandsword]

Fortunately, the OGL & SRD's guarantee that the 3.x iteration of D&D will be around pretty much forever, even if not using the D&D trademark. Long after 4e, 5e and 6e have all gone through their projected planned obsolence, that game and it's descendants like PF will be around.

I've been worried about this kind of obsolescence for quite some time, almost a decade, since I first found out about "activation" in Windows XP way-back-when. If I want to re-install the OS on an old laptop from several years ago just to have for something to play some vintage games on, take notes in class, or use as a portable DVD player, one day I won't because MS will say I have to buy a copy and install a new OS. Makes me seriously consider Linux. Open source OS's and RPG's both have strong merits.

I'm sure WotC would absolutely love to use electronic means to force older editions off the market to have people buy whatever the new version of D&D is. At this point, the biggest competition D&D has, is D&D itself. Seriously, I think the main competition for D&D 4e among gamers is D&D 3.5 or other earlier editions, not other RPGs, and every new edition they make to try to generate more sales makes it worse. Of course, this leads back to the "Monopoly Edition" discussion and people saying that they MUST create new editions or that one edition for the long term/posterity isn't practical, but on the other hand, new editions every few years just to make players buy more books isn't practical either.

 

[wedgeski]

I've been worried about this kind of obsolescence for quite some time, almost a decade, since I first found out about "activation" in Windows XP way-back-when. If I want to re-install the OS on an old laptop from several years ago just to have for something to play some vintage games on, take notes in class, or use as a portable DVD player, one day I won't because MS will say I have to buy a copy and install a new OS. Makes me seriously consider Linux. Open source OS's and RPG's both have strong merits.

Linux isn't a panacea to the problem of long-term support, though. As new versions of the OS are released, old ones fall by the wayside, exactly as for Windows and other commercially licensed OS's. Package repositories get taken off-line, and developer interest in supporting versions of your favourite apps that work with increasngly old and obsolete libraries sharply declines. Yes, the source code is out there, and yes, if you are or know a software engineer who will give up his free time to help you out, you could theoretically be supported forever... but the real world just doesn't work like that.

Same with the OGL. Paizo will eventually want to overhaul Pathfinder or perhaps release their own, entirely new game system. At that point they will stop releasing product for Pathfinder v1.0, and 3.5OGL will effectively be "out of print". The rules will always be out there, and people can always theoretically build a game system around them or release product requiring only the reference document to run, but the system is no more "supported" that Red Box is "supported" because I can buy a used copy off eBay.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

Looking at half a room of dead dead-tree RPG stuff I'm rather relaxed on this. See. I own hundreds of RPG books, most of which will probably used never again. Gaming via subscription isn't such a terrible idea for me.

If push comes to shove, the D&D edition changes, and WotC pull the plug from the servers for 4e material, they will have lost me as a customer - probably forever.

But I'm pretty sure that we won't see an edition changed like in the past. D&D will continue to be developed and changed. But I expect the edition moniker silently being removed from the product. Perhaps in '14 we might see a commemorative edition of the 1e books marked as collectors' items, and a newly edited set of current rulebooks representing the then status of the game. In DDI you'll be able to make snapshots of the rules, representing the version you want to play with. All the tools mind your selection. So you can stay abreast with the ongoing development or alternatively configure your game as you like. You can also send you players a configuration token so that they use the same version for their preparations and character building.

Too optimistic, you say? May be. Time will tell...

 

[Gronin]

OTOH, there are people like me who wouldn't have put ANY money in their pocket for pure digital revisions.

agreed -- completely!

If the next edition of D & D is entirely digital I am out and I say this as someone who buys pretty much everything they put out that could be considered "core" (I don't buy every setting, very few modules and absolutely no "strategy guides").

Personally I am still unhappy that they chose to stop publishing "Dragon" and "Dungeon". To be fair I was almost over that and resigned/used to the online versions when they stopped doing issue compilations each month and that just salted the wound.

I like books and as long as they continue to publish something I can hold in my hand and turn pages on (and no an e-reader graphic is not page turning) I will probably keep buying but the day it all goes digital is most likely the day I am done.

 

[prosfilaes]

Linux isn't a panacea to the problem of long-term support, though.

For his purposes, though, it works. You can run Slackware 2 on your hardware if you want, and no activation will be required. It's not even hard to find.

At that point they will stop releasing product for Pathfinder v1.0, and 3.5OGL will effectively be "out of print".

The ebook age is starting to make "out of print" out of print. You can buy hordes of material for old systems, old versions of Shadowrun and WoD, Metamorphosis Alpha, old Judges Guild books, old GURPS books, etc. So maybe Paizo won't take all these PDFs out of print. But let's say they do; people will do the same thing they did with the D&D SRD and turn it into PDFs for sale. The system will be in print.

The rules will always be out there, and people can always theoretically build a game system around them or release product requiring only the reference document to run, but the system is no more "supported" that Red Box is "supported" because I can buy a used copy off eBay.

"Supported" doesn't matter for a lot of people. 3.5 has at least 7 full campaign products out there; Ptolus, World's Largest Dungeon, Castle Whiterock and 4 of Paizo's Adventure Paths. All of them are still in print, at least in PDF. Worst case scenario for PF is that Paizo pulls their adventure material, so you have to find them used, or go with some of the over 100 Pathfinder adventures on DriveThruRPG. After PF goes out of print, there will likely be more material in print for it then almost any other in-print RPG in history. Certainly more than AD&D 1e had in print at any one time it was in print.

 

[wedgeski]

"Supported" doesn't matter for a lot of people. 3.5 has at least 7 full campaign products out there; Ptolus, World's Largest Dungeon, Castle Whiterock and 4 of Paizo's Adventure Paths. All of them are still in print, at least in PDF. Worst case scenario for PF is that Paizo pulls their adventure material, so you have to find them used, or go with some of the over 100 Pathfinder adventures on DriveThruRPG. After PF goes out of print, there will likely be more material in print for it then almost any other in-print RPG in history. Certainly more than AD&D 1e had in print at any one time it was in print.

I'm not sure I made my point well enough here. W&S said "Fortunately, the OGL & SRD's guarantee that the 3.x iteration of D&D will be around pretty much forever", to which my answer is, the fact that it's OGL vs. simply out-of-print is irrelevant if the level of actual support for the system is the same... i.e. zero. Red Box basic will be around "pretty much forever" as well, in the form of used editions on eBay and scanned/OCR'd rips on file-sharing sites, as will 4E, which will remain a perfectly usable system even after the Compendium and the Character Builder are off-line.

If D&D were ever to go digital *only*, i.e. you could only build a character or monster or encounter from online tools, then arguments against planned obsolescence make a lot more sense.

I won't dispute your subsequent point about the *volume* of material available after the fact though; the OGL has ensured that the sheer page count of material for 3E and its ilk probably won't be matched any time soon.