Grimm or Once Upon a Time

[Mark CMG]

It is a risk, yes. However,there can be some managing that risk - the primary way is to make it so that a goodly chunk of the events look mundane from the outside.

I haven't watched the second episode yet, but the first stands as an example - the events look like a common kidnapping, that the cops probably would not have solved alone. And there's lots of those in the mundane world.

Maybe but even if they manage things as regular crimes of murder and kidnapping without any supernatural effects evident to the general public, that's going to be a whole lot of murder and kidnapping handled by one cop in a single year, year after year. That wouldn't go unnoticed by press and public. That would be true even for the largest of cities. Something like the X-Files covered the whole country, and sometimes outside the country, so it doesn't have that same saturation problem.

 

[Umbran]

Maybe but even if they manage things as regular crimes of murder and kidnapping without any supernatural effects evident to the general public, that's going to be a whole lot of murder and kidnapping handled by one cop in a single year, year after year.

Ah. I think that problem is shared by pretty much every police procedural and mystery show ever made. It isn't like Columbo handled a sane number of cases, right? And X-Files may have made the issue a little less obvious, but really, on average those agents opened, investigated, and closed a case every other week for years! That's not realistic either. Even with a Deputy Director on their side, someone would have noticed.

The same is true, I think, throughout TV-Land. Characters on weekly serials of any genre have an inane amount of action in their lives. It is an artifact of the serial medium, and I just accept it because if I insist they be realistic, I lose the good parts of the show.

Heck, my RPG characters have more than reasonable amounts of action in their lives. Why should seeing the same on a TV show bother me?

 

[Mark CMG]

Ah. I think that problem is shared by pretty much every police procedural and mystery show ever made. It isn't like Columbo handled a sane number of cases, right? And X-Files may have made the issue a little less obvious, but really, on average those agents opened, investigated, and closed a case every other week for years! That's not realistic either. Even with a Deputy Director on their side, someone would have noticed.

The same is true, I think, throughout TV-Land. Characters on weekly serials of any genre have an inane amount of action in their lives. It is an artifact of the serial medium, and I just accept it because if I insist they be realistic, I lose the good parts of the show.

Columbo averaged a handful of cases per year in Los Angeles, one of the largest population centers in the USA. Most X-Files cases weren't closed, from what I understand, but were left as unsolved. Either premise seems more easily acceptable to me than, as I mention above, what the saturation level of serial killers in Dexter's Miami is becoming. Some shows manage it well and others not so well. The set up for Grimm makes it difficult to expect that they will have an easy time managing it. I like the show so far from the standpoint of casting and acting and weirdness but I would prefer they had a better premise in regard to this one point.

Heck, my RPG characters have more than reasonable amounts of action in their lives. Why should seeing the same on a TV show bother me?

Because not everything in our lives is gauged by that metric?

 

[Dragonblade]

Aren't cops trained to shoot for the body? My brother had a cop take him to the shooting range, and on his first day shooting a gun, ever, he was apparently shooting better than many members of the force (according to the cop). My understanding is that they shoot for the body, as targeting individual limbs is much more likely to result in a miss.

Banshee

This is correct. My sister is a cop in Portland where I live. And where Grimm is filmed and takes place.

Shooting someone in the leg, or shooting their gun out of their hand is Hollywood BS. Cops are always trained to shoot center mass. In an actual shooting there is way too much adrenaline and chaos all around. Trying to be some kind of cowboy will get you or an innocent bystander killed.

So far I like Grimm. Its not rock solid, but its just starting out so I'll give it some time. Right now its kind of freak of the week, but sometimes that takes a season or so to grow out of. They are already laying down nuggets for longer story arcs.

Portland is a good setting for it, though. There is a curious mix of modern and old in Portland. There are older neighborhoods with spooky hundred plus year old houses. But there are modern newer suburbs as well.

With a one to two hour drive you can be deep in the middle of ancient primeval wildnerness as well. Much of the Mt. Hood national forest comes to mind. Plus out on the Oregon coast, you get the same vibe. Even in the summer the coast is pretty cold, so its not all resort-ified like say a beach in Southern California. In the winter, its easy to find a lonely desolate stretch of beach and walk for miles without seeing another soul. The salt bleached driftwood, and cold misty air and fog, especially during the mornings, adds to the primeval beauty, and gives a certain eerie feeling as well. There are even old light houses and such to add to the feel.

We played the Dresden Files RPG a few months back and we used Portland as our city. And not just because we live in Portland, but because the city in general is a perfect fit for something like Grimm or Dresden Files. Its just a vibe the city has.

 

[Umbran]

Columbo averaged a handful of cases per year in Los Angeles, one of the largest population centers in the USA.

He, personally, accounted for about 7 cases per year in his initial 1970s run. That is, as I understand it, quite a lot of murders for one man to handle, even in LA.

But, if you don't like Columbo as an example, take any of the modern procedurals (there are a bunch of them), and they're running close to a case every other week, if averaged over the year.

Most X-Files cases weren't closed, from what I understand, but were left as unsolved.

Unsolved and closed are not mutually exclusive, as I understand it. Closed is, "Nobody is going to look at this again." As opposed to a cold case, which is still open and up for further investigation, but with no further known leads, so that you have to wait for something to fall into your lap.

My understanding, of course, may be somewhat short of the facts.

Because not everything in our lives is gauged by that metric?

Not everything is exactly the same, sure. But the show and my game are similar beasts - both heroic fictions. To first approximation, I'd expect them to have similar metrics.

To each his own, of course. I just figure that if I'm gonna buy into supernatural critters, this isn't a major thing to break suspension of disbelief.

 

[Mark CMG]

(snip)

Bothers me, doesn't bother you. Got it.

 

[KiloGex]

Grimm lost me nearly from the very beginning: The setup took way too long, the characters aren't strong, and the acting isn't all that great. I am a fan of the idea behind it, but overall the execution isn't good enough.

On the other hand, I love the story of Once Upon a Time; the characters are great and work well together, while the writing and progression of the episodes is working well. Granted, the series does seem to have a finality to it in terms of it's production length, however I don't see that as a bad thing. Knowing that a series is going to run 4 or 6 seasons and then conclude has worked in England forever, so why not take it up on this side, as well.

 

[Jack7]

After hearing about the show I recorded and watched two episodes of Grimm this weekend. I like the show, but to me it feels far less like the X-Files than it does Millennium, which I liked a lot.

I haven't seen Once Upon a Time yet, but, I'm recording that too. To watch later.

 

[Felon]

The shows are still in their infancy. They have to spend a lot of energy establishing their their premsise, their cast of characters, and their rules. So, in a sense, it's too early to judge. They both did well enough in the ratings that we'll likely get 13 episodes out of them even if there's a big dropoff.

But, it's fun to judge and criticize things, so...

Grimm is a by-the-numbers "chosen one" story delivered without much sense of personality--and this is the sort of show that really needs a strong personality. It's not especially dark or clever or funny, so I have no idea what it's going for. Shows like Buffy, Trueblood, and Supernatural have raised the bar higher than this. I mean, fiction about mythical creatures in modern settings is pretty much at a postmodern state. I hope it has higher ambitions than monster-of-the-week.

Once Upon a Time has a stronger style. Of course, that style is kind of a schmaltzy love-conquers-all sort of vibe, so Grimm may wind up being up my alley in the long run. I think this show will be made or broken by how much it develops its ensemble cast of characters, sort of like Lost did.

 

[Kzach]

Grimm lost me nearly from the very beginning: The setup took way too long, the characters aren't strong, and the acting isn't all that great. I am a fan of the idea behind it, but overall the execution isn't good enough.

Grimm is a by-the-numbers "chosen one" story delivered without much sense of personality--and this is the sort of show that really needs a strong personality. It's not especially dark or clever or funny, so I have no idea what it's going for. Shows like Buffy, Trueblood, and Supernatural have raised the bar higher than this. I mean, fiction about mythical creatures in modern settings is pretty much at a postmodern state. I hope it has higher ambitions than monster-of-the-week.

Once Upon a Time has a stronger style. Of course, that style is kind of a schmaltzy love-conquers-all sort of vibe, so Grimm may wind up being up my alley in the long run. I think this show will be made or broken by how much it develops its ensemble cast of characters, sort of like Lost did.

I've said all this already.

With the exception of the 'schmaltzy' comment. You did notice the bit where she stabbed her father to death, right?