Book of Vile Darkness Preview

[Phaezen]

The end stages of these diseases are basically "You don't get to play that character until they're cured." That strikes me as just really really annoying.

Compared to the final states of some of the DMG diseases - Mummy Rot, character dies; Cackle Fever, Character is catatonic; Slimy Doom, character dies and becomes a slime.

Certainly not something a DM will introduce to the campaign willynilly, but can add a nice sense of urgeny.

 

[Pour]

Of all the 4e releases, and this may just be my sadistic DM nature, none rides with so much expectation as this book. Not only will usable crunch be a factor (to be fair I'd throw on magic nipple rings... clearly Azmodan did), I also want a heavy dose of flavor and content. BoVD can so easily turn into a hot moss without an expert lead designer weaving through what in any other supplemental book would be considered unfocused and seemingly random materials. I mean the binding theme being 'really evil' is almost laughable when you think about it for its universal usage in just about every supplement involving a villain or obstacle. Still, I, and I bet many others, desperately want to see it done, with juicy representation of both iconic and new villains, and done well. It has to be, or else it won't stand up.

I've liked a lot of Rob Schwalb's work, but I think one author on this book was a terrible idea. I would have much rathered 20 authors, each inputting for a villain or chapter, giving me a range of style and approach as well as crunch and flavor. Now it all rides on Rob's shoulders, and this project is definitely a hit or miss. It's still too soon to tell if this book works yet or not. I can't say that the previews really stimulate me so far, though.

 

[Matt James]

I've liked a lot of Rob Schwalb's work, but I think one author on this book was a terrible idea. I would have much rathered 20 authors, each inputting for a villain or chapter, giving me a range of style and approach as well as crunch and flavor. Now it all rides on Rob's shoulders, and this project is definitely a hit or miss. It's still too soon to tell if this book works yet or not. I can't say that the previews really stimulate me so far, though.

You would be surprised just how many game designers laid eye balls on this. I wouldn't judge this book until it comes out. Rob did a tremendous job on it; as did the other designers, developers, and editors. Also, the feedback from playtesters was crucial.

 

[Pour]

You would be surprised just how many game designers laid eye balls on this. I wouldn't judge this book until it comes out. Rob did a tremendous job on it; as did the other designers, developers, and editors. Also, the feedback from playtesters was crucial.

Certainly, certainly, but I'm also remaining realistic at the same time based on what I've seen so far. Glad to hear your praises, having already seen the book yourself. That's a good sign. Again, too soon for me to tell.

 

[Incenjucar]

Compared to the final states of some of the DMG diseases - Mummy Rot, character dies; Cackle Fever, Character is catatonic; Slimy Doom, character dies and becomes a slime.

Certainly not something a DM will introduce to the campaign willynilly, but can add a nice sense of urgeny.

Thing is that death is fine, because you can resurrect them. "Become evil and crazy" just means you can't play that character now. I would prefer something that makes you constantly dangerous to the party, but still useful, and able to participate. Otherwise it's like a multi-encounter stun.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Thing is that death is fine, because you can resurrect them. "Become evil and crazy" just means you can't play that character now. I would prefer something that makes you constantly dangerous to the party, but still useful, and able to participate. Otherwise it's like a multi-encounter stun.

I think the problem is that stuff like this is all VERY situational and the ideal way to handle it is going to vary a lot between groups and types of campaign. You might for instance allow the PC to continue to be played as a werewolf in one game, etc. (though admittedly we haven't gotten any rules for that).

The other thing is that presumably if you're introducing something that is ultimately fatal to the character and makes it unplayable that the purpose of that element isn't to gank PCs, but to drive the story forward. So there will be ways to stave off/cure/ameliorate the curse/disease/whatever. You won't ACTUALLY kill off the character, unless the players choose for that to happen or miserably fail to achieve a cure (and miserable failure leading to PC death isn't exactly novel).

 

[bganon]

Uh, doesn't the werewolf curse only take the character out of the player's control on nights with a full moon? It seems the character is otherwise still perfectly normal; the stage 4 effects replace the previous stages so you don't even have the "attack allies when hit" issue. There isn't even an alignment change. It appears designed so that the player can keep playing and gives quest ideas to remove the curse.

The final stage of faceless hate does pretty much take the character out of player control, but it also removes the mouth so it's a death sentence. Not sure what happens when the character gets resurrected, though... maybe with a special ritual the alignment can be restored? Seems like more quest ideas for the player to me.

 

[pemerton]

Thing is that death is fine, because you can resurrect them. "Become evil and crazy" just means you can't play that character now.

Why wouldn't you just Cure Disease or Remove Affliction? These are 6th and 8th level respectively, and both are cheaper than Raise Dead (150 gp or 250 gp, compared to 500 gp or more).

 

[Incenjucar]

Why wouldn't you just Cure Disease or Remove Affliction? These are 6th and 8th level respectively, and both are cheaper than Raise Dead (150 gp or 250 gp, compared to 500 gp or more).

The use of Remove Affliction is strictly up to DM discretion, regarding Lycanthropy.

In this case you may have to actually find your fellow players' character. Admittedly, they don't say what the DM is to do with the PC. Technically the DM could just have them beg for kibble until sunrise.

Personally, I far prefer a disease or curse that is a hindrance without entirely shutting a character down at any point. Once the character is out of the player's control, the player has to find something else to do. Character death is already something kept somewhat rare, because of this, with characters eventually gaining powers that let them pop back to life because of how annoying it can be.

 

[Rune]

I think the problem is that stuff like this is all VERY situational and the ideal way to handle it is going to vary a lot between groups and types of campaign. You might for instance allow the PC to continue to be played as a werewolf in one game, etc. (though admittedly we haven't gotten any rules for that).

The other thing is that presumably if you're introducing something that is ultimately fatal to the character and makes it unplayable that the purpose of that element isn't to gank PCs, but to drive the story forward. So there will be ways to stave off/cure/ameliorate the curse/disease/whatever. You won't ACTUALLY kill off the character, unless the players choose for that to happen or miserably fail to achieve a cure (and miserable failure leading to PC death isn't exactly novel).

It's also worth noting that these curses have daily checks for change of condition, even after they've reached stage 0 or 4, so getting to the final stage isn't final--and neither is recovery (until the curse is removed).