Alternative Magic System

[Crothian]

Is one time in a row -1?

 

[SeaJay]

Is one time in a row -1?

No. First time casting is at 0, I'll clarify that

Thank you

 

[SeaJay]

Thinking of adding:

Fail by 6 or more = Spell fails, is wiped, along with 1d4 random other spells.

 

[Crothian]

That might be a little too harsh.

Or add something like succeed by 6 or more and spell is increased in power some way (higher DC, greater range, greater results)

 

[udalrich]

I like the idea of a check to not lose the spell, but the DC needs to increase as 2*spell level. Otherwise, it eventually becomes automatic. Wizards are powerful enough without giving them 9th level spells at will.

I also like the caster level check over the skill check. If it is a spellcraft check, every caster in the game is eventually going to have a +10 or +20 spellcraft item. At that point, the check is pretty much an automatic success if a first level character has a reasonable chance of successfully casting the spell.

I would probably make it mandatory, as otherwise the casters are only going to use it when rolling a 1 means they cast the spell successfully (or better). I would probably go with something like this:

Make a caster level check.

• DC 15 + 2*spell level: Spell is cast and not wiped
• DC 8 + 2*spell level: Spell is cast but wiped
• DC 3 + 2*spell level: Spell is not cast but not wiped
• Otherwise: Spell is not cast and wiped

Increase the DC by one for each time the spell has already been cast.

Casting your best spell, there's about a 20% chance to retain it and a similar chance to completely lose it. Casting a spell 4 levels below your best (something that should be trivial by now), there is a 60% chance to retain it. On the downside, a first level wizard has a 45% spell failure chance, and first level wizards are not overpowered. I could be persuaded to make the roll something like 1d20+max(5,caster level)

Another thing to consider is the effect on partial casters. Using a DC of N+2*spell level effective gives high level bards, magii and similar casters a +6 on their check to not forget their highest level spell, since they are only casting sixth level spells, not ninth level spells. OTOH, that could be a way to compensate the -3 penalty they take on the save DC for their best spells for the same reason.

You also might want to increase the spells per day of all the casters to compensate for the fact that they sometimes lose their spells.

A slight variation that would speed up game play is to instead make the check when you try to recast the spell. Instead of requiring a d20 roll every time a spell is cast, now there is a roll only when you want to recast the spell. I would probably make the DC something like 10+2*spell level and a simple pass/fail result. It's an easier check, but there is also a higher chance of your action having no effect.

This also avoids the spell failure problem on the first casting, which also means that the wizard can assume he has his daily buffs everyday, rather than a random set.

 

[SeaJay]

Re-tweaked for your discerning eye.

Alternative Magic System
Players have two options when casting spells.

1. Cast the spell as normal, and it gets wiped from the caster’s mind as normal.

2. Roll against a target number of 13 + the spell’s level. This is known as the spell’s Difficulty Class (DC).

Add the character’s Intelligence modifier (if any) to the d20 roll.

Any result equal to or greater than the DC is a success.

A Success = the spell is cast, no manna is lost, and the spell doesn't get wiped from the caster’s mind.

A Fail = the spell fails, manna is lost, but the spell doesn’t get wiped from the caster’s mind.

A Fail by 3 or more = the spell fails, manna is lost, and the spell is wiped from the caster’s mind.

Repetitive Castings: If the same spell is cast more than once during an 8 hour period, the casting of that spell carries a penalty equal to the number of times the spell is cast. For example, twice in a row and it’s a -2 penalty, three times in a row and it’s a -3 penalty and so on. Note that there is no penalty for casting a spell the first time, only after the first time.

Spell casters know the same number of spells.

Spell casters do not have to memorize/pick their spells ahead of time.

Level DC Int +0 Manna
1 14 (35%) 1
2 15 (30%) 2
3 16 (25%) 3
4 17 (20%) 4
5 18 (15%) 5
6 19 (10%) 6
7 20 (05%) 7
8 21 (00%) 8
9 22 (00%) 9

A 1 is an automatic failure

A 20 is an automatic success

Manna
A spell also costs a number of manna points equal to the spell’s level.

Manna regenerates at 1 point per hour, and 2 points if the spell caster is sleeping.

All spellcasters begin the game with a number of manna points equal to their class level x5, and their Intelligence modifier x5.

So a 6th level wizard with intelligence modifier of +3, has a total of 45 manna points with which to fuel his spells.

What do you think?

 

[N'raac]

Re-tweaked for your discerning eye.

Alternative Magic System
Players have two options when casting spells.

1. Cast the spell as normal, and it gets wiped from the caster’s mind as normal.

2. Roll against a target number of 13 + the spell’s level. This is known as the spell’s Difficulty Class (DC).

Add the character’s Intelligence modifier (if any) to the d20 roll.

Any result equal to or greater than the DC is a success.

A Success = the spell is cast, no manna is lost, and the spell doesn't get wiped from the caster’s mind.

A Fail = the spell fails, manna is lost, but the spell doesn’t get wiped from the caster’s mind.

A Fail by 3 or more = the spell fails, manna is lost, and the spell is wiped from the caster’s mind.

Repetitive Castings: If the same spell is cast more than once during an 8 hour period, the casting of that spell carries a penalty equal to the number of times the spell is cast. For example, twice in a row and it’s a -2 penalty, three times in a row and it’s a -3 penalty and so on. Note that there is no penalty for casting a spell the first time, only after the first time.

Spell casters know the same number of spells.

Spell casters do not have to memorize/pick their spells ahead of time.

This seems hugely punitive to classes that cast spontaneously under the existing rules. Why would anyone ever want to be a Sorceror or an Oracle rather than a Wizard or Cleric? It seems like one starts the day with a full repertoire of spells available, subject only to mana, so who cares if I can't cast any given spell multiple times?

Adding spells to the repertoire becomes the goal - I only expect to cast Magic Missile once a day, so I need lots more offensive L1 spells.

Manna
A spell also costs a number of manna points equal to the spell’s level.

Manna regenerates at 1 point per hour, and 2 points if the spell caster is sleeping.

All spellcasters begin the game with a number of manna points equal to their class level x5, and their Intelligence modifier x5.

So a 6th level wizard with intelligence modifier of +3, has a total of 45 manna points with which to fuel his spells.

And needs a day of bed rest to recover them all. Maybe the recovery rate should be linked to level, like hit points are (anyone else remember when a high level character would need months to heal naturally?).

With a fixed 5 points per level, a L1 wizard with 16 INT (pretty modest) gets 20 points, and can cast 20 L1 spells a day (he'll fail all the retention checks long before running out of Manna).

A L 15 wizard with, say, 28 INT will have 120 Manna. He needs 100 to cast his current spells per day, with no bonus spells factored in.

Do multiclasses need to track separate Manna pools? How much do Paladins, Bards and Rangers get? if it's the same 5 per level + 5x ability bonus, their spellcasting capability just went WAY up.

 

[SeaJay]

This seems hugely punitive to classes that cast spontaneously under the existing rules. Why would anyone ever want to be a Sorceror or an Oracle rather than a Wizard or Cleric? It seems like one starts the day with a full repertoire of spells available, subject only to mana, so who cares if I can't cast any given spell multiple times?

Adding spells to the repertoire becomes the goal - I only expect to cast Magic Missile once a day, so I need lots more offensive L1 spells.



And needs a day of bed rest to recover them all. Maybe the recovery rate should be linked to level, like hit points are (anyone else remember when a high level character would need months to heal naturally?).

With a fixed 5 points per level, a L1 wizard with 16 INT (pretty modest) gets 20 points, and can cast 20 L1 spells a day (he'll fail all the retention checks long before running out of Manna).

A L 15 wizard with, say, 28 INT will have 120 Manna. He needs 100 to cast his current spells per day, with no bonus spells factored in.

Do multiclasses need to track separate Manna pools? How much do Paladins, Bards and Rangers get? if it's the same 5 per level + 5x ability bonus, their spellcasting capability just went WAY up.

So you like it then

 

[Rampant]

This seems a bit OP. 3e had reserve feats, prep a spell of a certain type and you got a supernatural ability that you could use at will until you cast the spell. Would that work instead?

 

[SeaJay]

This seems a bit OP. 3e had reserve feats, prep a spell of a certain type and you got a supernatural ability that you could use at will until you cast the spell. Would that work instead?

Possibly.

Thanks for the recommendation