A mini-rant re: Pathfinder and D&D

[enrious]

It's a shame that my OD&D, 1e AD&D, 2e AD&D, and 3e D&D books aren't D&D any more.


Only with gamers will you have a case where D&D isn't D&D.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Only with gamers will you have a case where D&D isn't D&D.

Nah- anything that people love will engender the same kind of language. I watch a lot of Top Gear, for instance, and they constantly talk about how a particular car by Ferrarri, Land Rover, Lambourghini, Porsche, Jaguar, Abarth or some other maker lacks the feeling they expect.

Ditto guitars- I see reviewers talk about how a particular axe "lacks the mojo", vibe, sound or feel the reviewer thinks is typical of other guitars from that manufacturer.

 

[Pilgrim]

By your definition of D&D, no. However, not everyone agrees with your definition. As stated many times on this thread by multiple posters, what the legal or dow jones definition of D&D is not necessarily the same definition used by various gamers who play RPGs. So until we can all agree with a single definition on what D&D is, there is no simple answer.

Sure there is, the simple answer is, they're wrong.

They can stomp feet, throw up their hands, and shout to the sky above until they're blue in the face, but it won't change anything. It's not D&D.

One can take any other RPG available and play in whatever manner, style or spirit one likens to D&D, but that doesn't make the game D&D. Trying validate anything else demonstrates either blissful ignorance or willful stubbornness.

 

[Crothian]

Sure there is, the simple answer is, they're wrong.

They can stomp feet, throw up their hands, and shout to the sky above until they're blue in the face, but it won't change anything. It's not D&D.

One can take any other RPG available and play in whatever manner, style or spirit one likens to D&D, but that doesn't make the game D&D. Trying validate anything else demonstrates either blissful ignorance or willful stubbornness.

Right. Just like one can belief that aliens killed Hitler. Just because someone believes it doesn't make it true.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Right. Just like one can belief that aliens killed Hitler. Just because someone believes it doesn't make it true.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMgnJDXd3k&feature=youtube_gdata_player]Hitler NEIN! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[enrious]

It's not D&D.

What is D&D?

 

[Aldarc]

And as should be obvious to anyone at this point, we are not going to agree on a single definition.

I'd like to think that it's more akin to "Every gamer knows exactly what D&D is, except when talking with other gamers about what D&D is."

 

[Mercurius]

Sure there is, the simple answer is, they're wrong.

They can stomp feet, throw up their hands, and shout to the sky above until they're blue in the face, but it won't change anything. It's not D&D.

One can take any other RPG available and play in whatever manner, style or spirit one likens to D&D, but that doesn't make the game D&D. Trying validate anything else demonstrates either blissful ignorance or willful stubbornness.

I would agree with you if we were talking about a game that was actually, well, designed to be its own game. Pathfinder is a revised version of 3.5 edition D&D; it is not a new creation, but a modification. Paizo's house rules of 3.5, if you will.

 

[gamerprinter]

They can stomp feet, throw up their hands, and shout to the sky above until they're blue in the face, but it won't change anything. It's not D&D.

I don't need to stamp my feet. It matters not to me whether we agree on a definition of D&D. I don't want to convince you to my perspective - it doesn't even matter. I'm convinced of my definition, though the subject of it's definition only comes in forum/message boards, nowhere else. So it's really a non-point.

If D&D hadn't changed at all from 1974 on, then we could all agree on some thing that is definitely D&D. But while the essence of the game is the same, the rules between every edition can hardly be called the same thing. Many games are still close to D&D, but deviated a long time ago, yet simple gamers, as in those in my group - they are all D&D.

Games that don't use a d20 + modifier vs. DC/AC, with possible saving throw mechanic or don't have levels for characters that progress in hit points, saves and class features, may be an RPG, but is not D&D. Everything else that uses the above mechanics, no matter what genre it supports (fantasy, cowboy's, sci-fi, other) is still D&D, at least by my definition.

I'm sure that doesn't match your definition, and I'm fine with that.

 

[billd91]

I would agree with you if we were talking about a game that was actually, well, designed to be its own game. Pathfinder is a revised version of 3.5 edition D&D; it is not a new creation, but a modification. Paizo's house rules of 3.5, if you will.

A rather pointless distinction. Was 3.5 a WotC house-ruled 3.0? Was 2nd edition a house-ruled 1st edition?