Does Summon Swarm partly counter invisibility?

[Buugipopuu]

Regardless if the spell would aid the PC's in seeing the invisible target, I'd rule that the swarm itself, although possibly indicating an empty space around the individual creatures, would still not see the invisible target and therefore not be able to attack it.

Swarms don't need to see their target to attack it. Swarm damage is automatic and not subject to concealment or cover.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Swarms don't need to see their target to attack it. Swarm damage is automatic and not subject to concealment or cover.

Upoin re-reading the MMI swarm entries, I modify my statement to say that upon further reading the swarm info, most swarms would attack an invisible target. Thanks for the clarification.
The entry for most of the swarms read, in part, "...Swarm seeks to surround and attack any living prey it encounters...", if the swarm has a method to destinquish that the object it cannot see is in fact living prey, as opposed to a rock, a pool of water, a tree stump, etc.
-A Rat Swarm with Scent would be able to identify a living target it could not see.
-A Bat swarm with Blindsense would attack an invisible creature, however Bat swarms only attack warm blooded targets as per the text.
-A Spider Swarm with Tremorsense would detect any invisible target that is moving, but not one staying still. I'd imagine a target that succums to nausea would move.

...so the only exception would be an invisible target, not nausiated, subject to a spider swarm.

 

[Noumenon]

Except that when you direct the swarm to the invisible guy the next round, it becomes "summon swarm + poor man's faerie fire" every round.

The two spells I'm thinking of (Summon Swarm and Insect Plague) don't let you direct the swarms.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Can Detect Magic be used as the poor man's See Invisibility?

 

[Vegepygmy]

I generally think it's [not?] a good idea to make one spell of a given level also do the same thing as another spell of the same level.

While I understand the concern behind this thought, I largely disagree. I encourage players to think of creative ways to use spells (and magic items, and class abilities, etc.) that make them more effective than usual in certain situations.

What you have to look out for, I think, are spells (or magic items, or class abilities, etc.) that are in every situation better than others of the same or higher level. But using summon swarm as a poor man's glitterdust isn't such a case, especially given the caster's lack of control over the swarm.

 

[TrueSpade]

I see how that makes sense. I would allow it.

 

[frankthedm]

Can Detect Magic be used as the poor man's See Invisibility?

If the invisible creature doesn't move for two or three rounds.

 

[Ashtagon]

I'd rule that a swarm of diminutive crawling creatures would outline someone enough to allow you to note their location similar to faerie fire; however, that only applies to the second round in the swarm. In the first round, the swarm reduces the benefit of invisibility to total concealment as the insects have not yet been able to crawl up the target's legs and body. A swarm of diminutive flying creatures, however, while they do land on any invisible creatures in their space, they also limit line of sight, similar to how a cloud would, so as to obscure exactly where that creature is. The overall effect is that you know which square the invisible creature is in, but he still has total concealment (50% miss chance).

 

[Noumenon]

Another problem I've thought of with flying insects is that you are going to be able to see other flying insects right through the body of the invisible person, making it hard to pick out where the empty space is.