Mercurius
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PROPS TO PAIZO – On How Pathfinder feels (more like) D&D (to me) than 4E
First, a bit of background. I haven’t played 3.x since 2003 or 2004 (long ago enough that I can’t pinpoint which year). After a hiatus from the hobby, I got excited about news of 4E and started a campaign in late 2008 and have been playing ever since, DMing until about six months ago. I’m primed to take over the DM reins again in a few months and am starting the process of designing a new campaign setting, one of my favorite activities. That said, I’m a bit burned out on 4E. I like the game and feel that some aspects of it are better than prior editions, but I’m also a bit sick of other aspects. After ordering the Pathfinder Beginner’s Box a couple weeks ago, I’ve toyed with the idea of running Pathfinder – something that I thought I would never do. Over the last week or so I’ve become more serious about the idea, even purchasing the first parts of three different Adventure Paths.
I am really excited about 5E and not only plan on playing it when it comes out, but checking out the playtest. If the material they provide is comprehensive enough I might even run my campaign with 5E, and maybe enhance it with materials from Pathfinder, 4E, and other editions. But I’m inspired about the idea of running one of Paizo’s Adventure Paths, so I’m getting to know the Pathfinder game and hope to dive into the solo adventure in the Beginner’s Box at some point in the next few days.
So here it is, a repeat of my thread sub-title: Pathfinder feels (more like) D&D (to me) than 4E.
I feel a bit funny saying that, but it is a deliberate move on my part. I have engaged in a few conversations here over the last year or so about what is D&D, and have taken issue with the phrase “4E is not D&D to me” or assertions by naysayers that 4E isn’t actually D&D. I have agreed with many of the common criticisms which I won’t go into—that’s not the point of this thread—but I have still felt that 4E was very much a valid expression of the “Being of D&D,” even if it is less traditional than any other edition.
But here’s the kicker. After reading through the Pathfinder books, I’m having numerous experiences of “Oh, I forgot about that – I missed that! Spell lists! Interesting magic items! This is what D&D is supposed to be like, even with the warts.” Etc etc.
Given that I haven’t played 3.x in eight years, I honestly can’t tell how Pathfinder will play, or whether I’ll like it more or less than 4E or if my inner egalitarian will just assign it the label “different.” But the feel of the game, of the rulebooks and Adventure Paths, is closer to what I hold in my mind as being D&D and, more importantly, what I love about D&D. For that I have to give Paizo props.
I probably shouldn’t go further without reminding myself of what I didn’t like about 3.x, and from what I can tell hasn’t changed with Pathfinder – the complication of the game and the time-sink of preparation for the DM. As I said above, my intention is still to convert to 5E as soon as possible, but that rather than playing 4E until then, I might be going on a Pathfinder detour and am rather excited about the idea.
So this thread is my way of saying: I get it. I get why Pathfinder feels more like D&D (to me, and some others) than 4E does, and I get what 4E has lost and how much of it has been kept alive in Pathfinder. I still think that 4E is D&D, that it feels like D&D, but more of a variant on the core lineage, a cousin in the family rather than a son or daughter. It also feels like more of a detour, a temporary zone to explore, rather than a permanent destination (for me). The pseudo-Buddhist in me recognizes that everything is impermanent, that no matter how great 5E will be it will still be a temporal manifestation of the "Being of D&D" that will transform (die and be reborn) into a new incarnation, but looking into Pathfinder has a feeling of coming back to the core lineage of D&D and re-engaging my roots, like I've been away in a foreign country, a country that I've enjoyed visiting but isn't home, isn't where I want to be.
Again, this is not to say anything negative about 4E or those that consider it home. I am just realizing that it isn't home to me, that it isn't my lineage. With this new encounter with Pathfinder and the development of 5E, it feels like both a new renaissance of D&D is just dawning, and a homecoming. And it is good to be home!
First, a bit of background. I haven’t played 3.x since 2003 or 2004 (long ago enough that I can’t pinpoint which year). After a hiatus from the hobby, I got excited about news of 4E and started a campaign in late 2008 and have been playing ever since, DMing until about six months ago. I’m primed to take over the DM reins again in a few months and am starting the process of designing a new campaign setting, one of my favorite activities. That said, I’m a bit burned out on 4E. I like the game and feel that some aspects of it are better than prior editions, but I’m also a bit sick of other aspects. After ordering the Pathfinder Beginner’s Box a couple weeks ago, I’ve toyed with the idea of running Pathfinder – something that I thought I would never do. Over the last week or so I’ve become more serious about the idea, even purchasing the first parts of three different Adventure Paths.
I am really excited about 5E and not only plan on playing it when it comes out, but checking out the playtest. If the material they provide is comprehensive enough I might even run my campaign with 5E, and maybe enhance it with materials from Pathfinder, 4E, and other editions. But I’m inspired about the idea of running one of Paizo’s Adventure Paths, so I’m getting to know the Pathfinder game and hope to dive into the solo adventure in the Beginner’s Box at some point in the next few days.
So here it is, a repeat of my thread sub-title: Pathfinder feels (more like) D&D (to me) than 4E.
I feel a bit funny saying that, but it is a deliberate move on my part. I have engaged in a few conversations here over the last year or so about what is D&D, and have taken issue with the phrase “4E is not D&D to me” or assertions by naysayers that 4E isn’t actually D&D. I have agreed with many of the common criticisms which I won’t go into—that’s not the point of this thread—but I have still felt that 4E was very much a valid expression of the “Being of D&D,” even if it is less traditional than any other edition.
But here’s the kicker. After reading through the Pathfinder books, I’m having numerous experiences of “Oh, I forgot about that – I missed that! Spell lists! Interesting magic items! This is what D&D is supposed to be like, even with the warts.” Etc etc.
Given that I haven’t played 3.x in eight years, I honestly can’t tell how Pathfinder will play, or whether I’ll like it more or less than 4E or if my inner egalitarian will just assign it the label “different.” But the feel of the game, of the rulebooks and Adventure Paths, is closer to what I hold in my mind as being D&D and, more importantly, what I love about D&D. For that I have to give Paizo props.
I probably shouldn’t go further without reminding myself of what I didn’t like about 3.x, and from what I can tell hasn’t changed with Pathfinder – the complication of the game and the time-sink of preparation for the DM. As I said above, my intention is still to convert to 5E as soon as possible, but that rather than playing 4E until then, I might be going on a Pathfinder detour and am rather excited about the idea.
So this thread is my way of saying: I get it. I get why Pathfinder feels more like D&D (to me, and some others) than 4E does, and I get what 4E has lost and how much of it has been kept alive in Pathfinder. I still think that 4E is D&D, that it feels like D&D, but more of a variant on the core lineage, a cousin in the family rather than a son or daughter. It also feels like more of a detour, a temporary zone to explore, rather than a permanent destination (for me). The pseudo-Buddhist in me recognizes that everything is impermanent, that no matter how great 5E will be it will still be a temporal manifestation of the "Being of D&D" that will transform (die and be reborn) into a new incarnation, but looking into Pathfinder has a feeling of coming back to the core lineage of D&D and re-engaging my roots, like I've been away in a foreign country, a country that I've enjoyed visiting but isn't home, isn't where I want to be.
Again, this is not to say anything negative about 4E or those that consider it home. I am just realizing that it isn't home to me, that it isn't my lineage. With this new encounter with Pathfinder and the development of 5E, it feels like both a new renaissance of D&D is just dawning, and a homecoming. And it is good to be home!
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