D&D 4E 4e's Equivalent to Pathfinder

[Pour]

Should some of us choose not to move along with 5e, and given the nature of the GSL, I'm really curious what 4thers' options are in regards to continued support for 4e. My first inclinations are blogs, boards, and other grassroots, largely non-profit efforts, but is there another option? Can current 3rd party supporters continue with the GSL in its current format? Would they want to? I understand they couldn't quite update the rules and sell them, but... looking for evidence of life, I guess, come 5th Dawn.

Not trolling at all, and I'm actually pretty positive about this. I myself want to toss a hat into this kind of arena. Still, wondering what other's thoughts, theories, and possibilities might be.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I think this is too early. Until we actually know anything about 5e, there's no point of making a choice.

I wouldn't be surprised if 5e is nicer to 3rd parties; I'd like to see more 4e adventures than WotC can pump out.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

You might want to check out Fourth Party.

 

[Pour]

You might want to check out Fourth Party.

You must spread some Experience Points around before giving it to Tequila Sunrise again.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Technically I see no reason why someone couldn't use the OGL to construct a 4e clone in the same way people have created AD&D clones. You can't patent or copyright actual rules. You'd just have to reproduce all of the rules text in your own words and provide all your own fluff. On top of that you could run into a problem with say something like Dragonborn where WotC might be able to assert that it has enough originality to achieve some level of IP protection you might run afoul of. Stuff like that is pretty grey.

That's the thing though, why clone 4e? It isn't a bad system, but it can be easily improved. If you're going to do that, then you're just writing your own RPG. Of course it could be a very close cousin of 4e, but really its hard to see any business case for it. It would have to be a completely volunteer thing, and basically there are already games out there that will be actively supported you could create content for.

IMHO once 5e hits the shelves 4e is deader than dead. Wasn't around long enough to really become entrenched. No classic settings people will miss, etc. There will be people peeved about 5e's rules, inevitably, but they're kinda SoL. I'd say there'd be a fan community that hung on, but honestly what really ever materialized around 4e? There's dirt for fan created material, not a lot of 3PP stuff overall, etc. I mean KQ barely pays attention to 4e these days, and there's sure nothing like a fan site where people collect 4e compatible material.

It will be the lost edition basically. Not even particularly collectible as the print runs were fairly large.

 

[C4]

*My ears are burning* Someone must have used 'clone' and '4e' in the same sentence!

That's the thing though, why clone 4e? It isn't a bad system, but it can be easily improved. If you're going to do that, then you're just writing your own RPG. Of course it could be a very close cousin of 4e, but really its hard to see any business case for it. It would have to be a completely volunteer thing, and basically there are already games out there that will be actively supported you could create content for.

Aha!

You're right that it has to be a volunteer thing, because there's no business case for cloning 4e. But that didn't stop me from doing it.

Yes, I cloned 4e without writing a whole new rpg. It has all the errata and a few tweaks of my own, but 99% of the original is left intact. Because really, 4e is just about perfect already.

So unless you just have to have official ongoing support, there's no reason to sing a dirge for 4e.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Wizards can terminate the GSL at any time, at which point third party publishers have six months to sell off their existing stock.

This likely will happen either when 5e is released, or shorty afterwards.

A retro clone might be possible, but it'll be a little more difficult (since the GSL is way more restrictive than the OGL), and won't be as big as Pathfinder (a big part of their success was building a huge costumer base with Dragon and Dungeon).

 

[Rechan]

I think it depends on 5e and how 4e folks respond to the ruleset.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

*My ears are burning* Someone must have used 'clone' and '4e' in the same sentence!


Aha!

You're right that it has to be a volunteer thing, because there's no business case for cloning 4e. But that didn't stop me from doing it.

Yes, I cloned 4e without writing a whole new rpg. It has all the errata and a few tweaks of my own, but 99% of the original is left intact. Because really, 4e is just about perfect already.

So unless you just have to have official ongoing support, there's no reason to sing a dirge for 4e.

The question is, why clone the rules? I mean you'll certainly be able to get 4e stuff for quite some time, probably be out there on Amazon or whatever in 20 years still. Heck, I can buy a mint 1e PHB still pretty easily.

It isn't the books that matter, it is the support, the community playing a 'living' edition of the game, DDI, etc. That stuff isn't going to die for a year or two yet, but I'll predict now there are going to be few and far between 4e groups out there playing it in a couple years. There's always one in every group that is down on the whole notion. I don't have problems getting players now when at least people will sit down to play the latest edition, but that's likely to change pretty fast.

There will be the 4e die-hards, like with any other edition, but I think they're going to be a pretty small crew and given that there was basically no support outside of WotC when the game WAS the latest and greatest I have to believe there will be basically a vast desert of nothing in 2 years except some obscure "4e grognard" site somewhere with a few bad adventures on it, if that.

 

[Tallifer]

Unless the Wizards are lying to us, there was a promise recently (citation unknown by me) that they would continue to keep the Fourth Edition on-line tools open to subscribers even after the Fifth Edition arrives. I will look to that to help me run future Fourth stuff. However it would also be nice to see third party products for adventures, conversions and additional stuff for neglected classes, races and locations.