D&D 4E Help, I’m a Terrible (4E) DM

[Dragonblade]

There's nothing in the RAW that states you can't do exactly what they do and have to pull your punches. Nothing keeps players on their toes like the actual threat of dying. Those have always been my most memorable moments as both a DM and a Player.

Right. I don't mean to sound like I'm taking a shot at 3e, but I often found that encounter design was more art than science and I had to constantly be prepared to fudge in favor of the PCs if an encounter was too hard. 4e does a much better job at balancing encounter design, so that I as DM don't have to pull punches.

Once I have established and designed the encounter, my referee/storyteller hat comes off and my adversarial/monster hat comes on. I will now do my utmost to crush the players, to see them driven before me, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

That means I don't just have my brutes march up to the defenders and stop there, hacking away. Or let PC controllers sit back and attack me from the rear ranks with impunity. I go for the throat.

I immediately focus fire on their controllers and their leaders. I only consider OAs, and marks when it could potentially stop my monster's movement in getting to those leaders and controllers behind the defenders. If a lesser monster can sacrifice itself to put a stronger one in a better position to bring the pain, I do it.

I don't run my monsters out of fear of drawing an OA, or stop at the defender because I need to somehow RP that they are a threat. Mark me, hit me with that OA, because my monsters are coming for you!

Its not my job as the monster guy to be timid and reactive. My job is to defeat the players, and I do that as efficiently and brutally as I can. Its the players job to stop me. Its up to the strikers to position themselves for max damage. Its up to the defenders to use their marks to protect their allies. Its up to the leaders to heal themselves and their allies before I take them down. And its up to the controllers to seize control of the battlefield from my own monster controllers!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I feel for you, man. You tried to play a balanced game (fair on your side) against a bunch of power gamers. Your group may be nice guys, but they are serious munchkins.

It's no wonder you're having trouble. You're trying to hit what basically amounts to the absolute maximum AC the game can possibly allow at that level. Sounds frustrating.

It's not, however, a reflection of your DM skills, or of 4e.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I am fairly certain I don't deserve to be mentioned alongside P-Kitty, but thanks none the less, glad you found the musings useful.

I actually found your house rules with action points to be a pretty awesome thing to do (which I incorporated into my own campaign when I ran it) and it seemed you had a really good grasp on keeping your party challenged throughout all of your campaigns. I'm even reading your Dark Sun stuff right now as well, which I'm enjoying. So in my book you do deserve to me mentioned along with PC.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

Right. I don't mean to sound like I'm taking a shot at 3e, but I often found that encounter design was more art than science and I had to constantly be prepared to fudge in favor of the PCs if an encounter was too hard. 4e does a much better job at balancing encounter design, so that I as DM don't have to pull punches.

Nah you don't sound like you are taking a shot, it's true that is a thing that 4E does do a bit better and most people do agree with this statement and I like/play all the editions.

Once I have established and designed the encounter, my referee/storyteller hat comes off and my adversarial/monster hat comes on. I will now do my utmost to crush the players, to see them driven before me, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

Hah! A lot of DMs feel the same way, this is their world and the PCs are just visiting. If you are going to be controlling a major BBEG then he needs to be tough and not pull punches.

That means I don't just have my brutes march up to the defenders and stop there, hacking away. Or let PC controllers sit back and attack me from the rear ranks with impunity. I go for the throat.

I immediately focus fire on their controllers and their leaders. I only consider OAs, and marks when it could potentially stop my monster's movement in getting to those leaders and controllers behind the defenders. If a lesser monster can sacrifice itself to put a stronger one in a better position to bring the pain, I do it.

I don't run my monsters out of fear of drawing an OA, or stop at the defender because I need to somehow RP that they are a threat. Mark me, hit me with that OA, because my monsters are coming for you!

Its not my job as the monster guy to be timid and reactive. My job is to defeat the players, and I do that as efficiently and brutally as I can. Its the players job to stop me. Its up to the strikers to position themselves for max damage. Its up to the defenders to use their marks to protect their allies. Its up to the leaders to heal themselves and their allies before I take them down. And its up to the controllers to seize control of the battlefield from my own monster controllers!

I do the same thing, if a DM runs the monsters as stupid mindless beings then they are fodder, if they are smart in any way, shape, or form they need to be ran tactically the same way that PCs are being ran. That means a much better challenge for the PCs and more fulfillment for everyone playing when the challenge is overcome.

 

[Rechan]

7 pcs is tough. Due to the synergy of PC powers, depending on their builds they could be a force to be reckoned with. Add on top of that min/maxing, and on top of that an uncertainty with the system, and a module balanced towards a standard party, and you have the makings for extreme frustration and hitting a wall.

I'm confident in my ability with 4e and I wouldn't run a game in the above condition.

One thing also to do: don't attack the defender. He has an AC so high he can't be hit - so don't even try to hit him. That's not metagaming, as the high AC is protecting him.

 

[corwyn77]

PH1 fighters have Combat Challenge. The upside; hitting a marked enemy makes it stop moving (murder on skirmishers).

No, it doesn't. I'm really surprised how often this mistake still comes up.

A successful OA stops the enemy from moving (due to Combat Superiority), whether marked or not.

A Combat Challenge hit (an Immediate Interrupt, not an OA) just does damage. Period.

 

[Infiniti2000]

(Also, isn't a natural 20 always a crit, and thus max damage?)

I don't think this was answered, but no. A natural 20 is always a hit, but if it wouldn't otherwise hit, then it's not a critical hit. The rules text: " If you roll a 20 on the die when making an attack roll, you score a critical hit if your total attack roll is high enough to hit your target’s defense. If your attack roll is too low to score a critical hit, you still hit automatically."

 

[Vadriar]

This probably has been said, but 35 AC? Ok. Everyone disengages right now.

Why? To know this, we have to figure out how defenders work:

Defenders work in a peculiar way. They try to give the monster 2 bad choices:
1) Try to hit me (but it's hard, I have good AC)
2) Try to hit my Wizard buddy at -2. however, I will smack you if you try.

Generally, as a defender, the people in your party at risk from the monsters you are "tanking" are your melee non-defender allies. They generally have around 2 AC less than you. So, with mark penalty, they have the same AC as you, and a monster attacking them will eat your mark punishment and not get a better chance at hitting.

However, this 35-AC-for-a-round player has made option 1 very poor for the monster.
The choices this player presents a monster are:
1) Try to hit me and miss. Basically waste your standard action and eat a melee attack from me when it is my turn.
2) Try to hit the Wizard at -2 (good chance to hit) and eat a melee attack from me right now.

Option 2 is clearly superior. He disengages and goes after someone else. Any additional monsters being tanked by the Warden do the same. Their choice is even better: The Warden's mark punishments are both Immediate actions, of which you can only take one per round. So every monster after the first can just ignore the Warden, save for his Opportunity Attack if the monster chooses to move without shifting.

And this is not even including the possibility to shift away and charge someone (which is only -2, Wardens can't punish shifts), but a good party would probably position in such a way to make this very hard/impossible.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The AC 35 seemed to be a very temporary value, so I wouldn't overestimate its relevance. It may be more important to look at the "usual" AC.

I think there is a certain "art" to deciding whether NPCs should go for the Defender or not. To some extent, they absolutely should, just to remind everyone why you have the Defender. But sometimes you also have to ignore him, simply because attacking him just doesn't help the monster's situation anyway.

A plus of ignoring the defender is (aside maybe from Shielding Swordmages) is that it means more damage is dealt to both sides, which makes the combat more frantic and - shorter. The non-Defender classes are under considerably more pressure, but the NPCs also die faster (but not in vain - they may have a chance to take a PC out, which they won't if they keep attacking the Defender).

If the party is indeed composed of 7 PCs, you may have to adjust the encounters. The party is 40 % stronger than expected by the adventure designer - time to add some monsters or add some levels. (But keep in mind: Making individual enemies stronger doesn't make them better at dealing with action denying abilities, and with 7 PCs, there will be several of those. You may have to adjust your Elites and Solos so they have additional abilities to deal with this. Maybe add 2 levels and add a "Save against dazed/dominonated/stunned/immobilized/slowed/restrained at start of turn" ability to them.)

 

[Balesir]

[MENTION=710]Mustrum_Ridcully[/MENTION] makes a very good point; I hadn't noticed you were running for 7 player characters earlier. I run for a party of seven and it is absolutely essential that you 'boost' the monster numbers to fit. It's really easy to do; take the XP total for the encounter, multiply by 40% and add monsters to that value in XP. You can do this by adding more of the same monsters, by boosting some of those already there to elites or by adding different monsters that fit the "theme" of the encounter. When deciding which option to use, do what "feels right", what's easiest and what you like the idea of, but be careful to consider the size of the space the encounter is to take place in. Overcrowded encounters are often less fun.