Please critique this house-rule

[cavalier973]

It's about rolling for ability scores:

Roll 3d6 six times, assigning in order the result to the ability score.

Bonuses: A character gets a +1 bonus for ability scores that are 14 to 17, +2 for an 18. There is a -1 penalty for ability scores that are 6 or less.

Instead of improving all skill and ability checks on even-numbered levels, characters improve all s&a checks, attack rolls, etc. by one point each level gained.

The only way to improve ability scores is through continuous exercise of particular abilities (wearing heavy armor for a long time can improve STR and/or CON, reading a lot improves INT; every character gets an automatic increase to WIS over time)

How badly would such a houserule mess up the game's math?

 

[Mr. Wilson]

IMHO, that badly messes with the low levels of the game (and makes them much harder), but epic tier would be easier.

If that is what you wish, than so be it.

 

[the Jester]

What, exactly, are you trying to fix or accomplish with this?

IMHO adding a higher level of scaling-by-level is a horrible idea; we need to cut back on scaling for a more fun game.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Well, I disagree with Jester about scaling - I like the way the system scales.

That said, I second his question as to what your goal is. The math in 4e is very tight, and tinkering with it can greatly affect the PCs ability to hit monsters. Same with defences. And while now and again discussions come up about removing ability bonuses from the game, unlike the previous discussions your system doesn't preserve the basic math.

The system math basically breaks down like this (this also applies to defences):

At first level, monsters have x defences, and PCs will typically have +4 (all from their ability bonus) to hit Non-AC defences and a +7 (most from their ability bonus) to hit AC. So, by your system you are giving 1st level PCs -2 to hit (as you are essentially halving the stat bonus).

At 30th level, monsters have x+29 defences. PCs have gotten bonuses from various sources to make up for that +29 (+15 from 1/2 level bonuses, +6 from enchancements, +4 from stat bonuses, +3 from expertise feats). By your system, assuming you keep the various non stat bonuses, a 30th level PC will have +39 over what they had at level one - essentially giving them +10 to hit over what they should have.

 

[cavalier973]

Looking for a way to have random ability scores without punishing the players too much.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I would recommend then that you not screw around with the math and simply change how ability scores are generated.

Personally, I would suggest that you do something like I did for my campaign. I had each player:
1. roll 4d6
2. choose the highest 3 dice
3. do that 5 more times, then assign each set to a stat.

Then, if they were unhappy with their stat set as a whole, they could use point buy instead. Ultimately 3 players kept their rolls and 2 used point buy. No huge power difference between the two groups - the point buy PCs have slightly better to attack rolls as they could put 18s in their primary stat (no one rolled an 18), while the rolled players have overall better non-AC defences and skills - and are more likely to qualify for feats that have attribute requirements (though, at lvl 14, I don't think anyone has yet taken any such feats).

Or, if you just do straight 3d6 rolls, find out the average primary stat of the characters, then give all characters an untyped +x bonus to hit (and possibly to 1 or more defences) to bring the average bonus to +4.

 

[bganon]

Here's something I use, a "random point buy". Roll a d12, and take the corresponding array:

1: 18, 14, 11, 10, 10, 8
2: 18, 13, 13, 10, 10, 8
3: 18, 12, 12, 12, 10, 8
4: 17, 16, 11, 10, 10, 8
5: 17, 15, 13, 10, 10, 8
6: 17, 14, 14, 10, 10, 8
7: 17, 13, 13, 13, 10, 9
8: 16, 16, 13, 11, 10, 8
9: 16, 15, 14, 11, 10, 8
10: 16, 14, 14, 13, 10, 8
11: 15, 15, 15, 11, 10, 8
12: 15, 15, 14, 13, 10, 8


The above are each 22 points in the 4e point-buy system. There are other possibilities, but the above are most of the "good" ones. If you don't like the last two, you could take those off the list and roll a d10 instead.

If you want to assign them in random order (I usually let players choose), you could roll d6 to pick which ability score to apply a number to, rerolling if you get one that's already been assigned.

 

[mneme]

I do see what you're trying to do here -- make stats less important and go back more to a 1e approach to stat bonuses -- thus enabling the use of 3d6 or 4d6/lowest without completely unbalancing the game. But I don't think you succeed; as people say, you're messing with the math too much.

Here's what I'd do:

1. The default stat bonus is +3. Anytime -anything- refers to a stat, it's a +3. This goes up by 1 every 5 levels [PCs get a total of +10 to their primary stat over 30 levels, so this replicates that bonus with an extra pointless +1 at 30th level].
2. This stat bonus is modified by your actual stat as follows: 5 or lower: -2, 6-7: -1, 8-12: 0, 13-15: +1, 16-18: +2
3. Keep the half level scaling.
4. Stat increases are roleplayed; run things however you want, as stat bonuses matter, but they aren't the overpowering thing they are in base 4e.

This way, characters have about the same bonuses to do things that they have in 4e (slightly higher, but they also don't mostly have the big positive bonuses that focus in 4e gives), but they've got a lot more variation in terms of stats, which can be useful roleplay/concept fodder -- plus you can let players randomly roll stats, include the classic Manuals, etc without unbalancing things much.

 

[Unwise]

The most worrying thing for me is the stat gains via DM fiat. Players that can convince you that "my guy likes to go for runs every morning and swim every afternoon" gets a bonus to Con every level. The guy with the less demanding personality, or who role plays a lazy wastrel gets shafted.

If arbitrary stuff like "wearing heavy armor" or "being sneaky" is enough for a skill gain, how is that any different than just saying they get an increase every X amount of levels?

 

[cavalier973]

I do see what you're trying to do here -- make stats less important and go back more to a 1e approach to stat bonuses -- thus enabling the use of 3d6 or 4d6/lowest without completely unbalancing the game. But I don't think you succeed; as people say, you're messing with the math too much.

Here's what I'd do:

1. The default stat bonus is +3. Anytime -anything- refers to a stat, it's a +3. This goes up by 1 every 5 levels [PCs get a total of +10 to their primary stat over 30 levels, so this replicates that bonus with an extra pointless +1 at 30th level].
2. This stat bonus is modified by your actual stat as follows: 5 or lower: -2, 6-7: -1, 8-12: 0, 13-15: +1, 16-18: +2
3. Keep the half level scaling.
4. Stat increases are roleplayed; run things however you want, as stat bonuses matter, but they aren't the overpowering thing they are in base 4e.

This way, characters have about the same bonuses to do things that they have in 4e (slightly higher, but they also don't mostly have the big positive bonuses that focus in 4e gives), but they've got a lot more variation in terms of stats, which can be useful roleplay/concept fodder -- plus you can let players randomly roll stats, include the classic Manuals, etc without unbalancing things much.

I like this.