Gamist, Narrativist, and Simulationist

[Mokona]

Respondents gave me a hard time in Timmy, Johnny, Spike, and Vorthos for referencing a human model designed for trading card games, aka Magic: The Gathering.

I believe that human beings, and their interactions with the world around them, cannot be neatly (or easily) categorized. Despite that belief, it is very useful in product development to understand the balance of needs and in what proportion they're encountered.

Multiple polls that approach the same fundamental concept are helpful when trying to triangulate on the underpinning reality. Therefore, I present the question for D&D Next.

With regards to WotC designing 5th edition, which influence or approach is strongest for yourself? Are you more strongly associated with Gamist style, Narrativist style, or Simulationist style?

If you're 34% Gamist, 33% Narrativist, and 33% Simulationist then you should answer Gamist because that is the single strongest element. Similarly, if you're 34% Simulationist you should answer Simulationist in the poll.

Handy Gamist-Narrativist-Simulationist reference.

-Aaron

Notes:

Good polls and well formulated market research are difficult. Why force people to make either-or choices when they might answer "all of it"? By making respondents differentiate you get stronger signals that are more useful in analysis. Let me state, for the record, that I believe everyone has a little bit of each and all of the three styles in their life.

Also, I do not believe that GNS Theory is perfect or complete. The GNS designations have just as many flaws as the Timmy-Johnny-Spike-Vorthos model. Nevertheless, both provide useful data.

Further, each respondent will interpret the labels differently. That is not a problem. If Wizards of the Coast R&D ever uses this data they'll have their own understanding of the labels as well. It's better to get more data and additional poll responses than to argue definitions.

Take all four polls:

Butt-Kicker-Casual Gamer-Method Actor-Power Gamer-Specialist-Storyteller-Tactician poll
Timmy-Johnny-Spike-Vorthos poll
Character Actor-Power Gamer-Storyteller-Thinker poll
Gamist-Narrativist-Simulationist poll

 

[Yora]

There still should be a fourth answer. This way you only get answers from people who are willing to shoebox themselves into one of those three, without having any info on how many refuse to answer because they don't like the choices offered.

 

[Hassassin]

I like mostly simulationist-narrativist play, so I flipped a coin to see which to vote for.

 

[nnms]

My opinion of GNS Theory is that it has been developed way beyond what is easily accessible to the casual reader. The original terms, Gamism, Narrativist and Simulationism are so poor that they immediately cause misunderstanding among the reader. Even those at the heart of working on this model of rpg theory have abandoned them in favor of a "Step On Up", "Story Now!" and "The Right to Dream".

I think creating the barrier to understanding so people actually have to engage with the theory before they think they know what the terms mean and start arguing was a great move.

This may be a mean thing to say, but I don't think the majority of Enworld posters can meaningfully discuss this model of RPG theory after reading a single wikipedia entry. Or taking a poll.

Speaking of the poll, I don't believe the threefold model was ever meant to describe people. Saying you're 33% this and 24% that and 43% the third thing sort of shows that you missed the boat on the theory. It's about priorities of play in specific instances of play, not how many % of each you are.

Probably the biggest weakness of the whole theory is its strength. It's robust and developed enough that it is no longer really accessible. Even at The Forge, talking about it was abandoned in favor of only talking about actual play. A theory disconnected from reality, after all, is a bad theory.

I'm not trying to be elitist here, I'm just warning of potential pitfalls of discussing the three fold model as well as discussing it outside of the context of specific instances of actual play.

 

[Teataine]

Pretty much what nnms said.

GNS jargon is misleading and not very accessible. But more importantly, it's not really meant to describe player types.

 

[CleverNickName]

Looks like I'm about 50% Narrativist, and 25% of the other two. So, does that mean I'm doing it wrong?

 

[jonesy]

I think GNS is deeply flawed and trying to use it in game design limits creativity by cordoning your options before you even begin. A good well rounded roleplaying game has elements of all three, and more. Why should we even talk about it when its own creator thought it inadequate?

 

[thedungeondelver]

My opinion of that GNS thing is that it's junk. If it has any reality at all it is that it is entirely mutable and changes not only moment to moment but player to player. The person who invented that wants to actually really for real hold up a chunk of something physical - not an abstract concept - and say "This is how an RPG is played".

It's not like that. RPG play is not a mineral that can be purified and so on. It is a concept, it is quantum uncertainty.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think GNS is deeply flawed and trying to use it in game design limits creativity by cordoning your options before you even begin. A good well rounded roleplaying game has elements of all three, and more. Why should we even talk about it when its own creator thought it inadequate?

I agree, it isn't a good game design tool in my opinion. Also, lots of people feel using it as a guide is why 4e didn't do so well.

 

[Mokona]

Even those at the heart of working on this model of rpg theory have abandoned them in favor of a "Step On Up", "Story Now!" and "The Right to Dream".

I always assume that people are smart enough to think for themselves.

However, I mistakenly thought that GNS Theory was more widely known and understood here on EN World. Please, set up the poll with the correct explanation and the preferred terms. I will happily participate in your poll. I'd do it but clearly I'm not a GNS insider so I think you'd do a better job at it.

There are no right or wrong answers in a poll of this nature. It is purely the expression of the person who votes and their self-interpretation. In contrast, there are right and wrongs ways to phrase polls.