D&D 4E 4e's Equivalent to Pathfinder

[Incenjucar]

Purple Hair? No you can thank Jem for that.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Nope- never saw Jem.

LIST OF PURPLE-HAIRED ANIME CHARACTERS

Male:
- Dark Mousy from DN Angel
- Yuki Sohma from Fruits Basket
- Eisen from Harukanaru Toki No Naka De Hachiyō Shō
- Rei from Saint Beast
- Nuriko from Fushigi Yūgi
- Hanza Nukui from Bleach
- Tieria Erde from Gundam 00
- Xelloss from Slayers

Female:
- Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost In The Shell: Stand Alone Complex
- Anko Mitarashi from Naruto
- Revy from Black Lagoon
- Nerine Forbesii from Shuffle!
- Yaone from Gensomaden Saiyuki
- Zakuro Fujiwara from Tokyo Mew Mew
- Caren from Mermaid Melody
- Rinslet Walker from Black Cat
- Yuki Nagato from The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
- Sakura Matou from Fate/Stay Night
- Faye Valentine from Cowboy Bebop
- Kohran Ri from Sakura Wars
- Cornelia Li Britannia from Code Geass: Lelouch Of The Rebellion
- Karin Maaka from Karin
- Shampoo from Ranma ½
- Miyako Miyazaki from Bamboo Blade
- Kiyal Bachika from Tegen Toppa Gurren Lagan
- Anthy Himemiya from Revolutionary Girl Utena
- Yoruichi Shihōin from Bleach
- Tsukasa Hiiragi from Lucky Star
- Kagami Hiiragi from Lucky Star
- Aoi Sakuraba from Ai Yori Aoshi
- Mayu Miyuki from Ai Yori Aoshi
- Kyou Fujibayashi from Clannad
- Ryou Fujibayashi from Clannad
- Nodoka Miyazaki from Negima!
- Misa Kakizaki from Negima!
- Yue Ayase from Negima

And I remember watching Robotech in the 1980s...Zor Prime had purple hair and at least one other had leaf-green...

Not that any of them were feeding their cattle protoculture...

 

[S'mon]

Following up on what Abdul is saying, a modern (really, contemporary) game is one that has been adjusted to incorporate lessons learned over the past decades and to work within the average contemporary lifestyles, attitudes, infrastructure, and available equipment.

And yet... the game that best fits my 'modern, contemporary' lifestyle is 1e AD&D - I can run it online by text-chat with minimal prep, all while cleaning child's pee (or worse) off the bathroom floor!

By contrast 4e D&D takes a big investment, and is only 'low prep' in comparison to 3e D&D, the highest-prep game I've ever run. If anything I'd say 1e AD&D (and other pre-3e D&D) was aimed at a range of gamers, from casual to hobbyist, whereas 3e & 4e were aimed squarely at the hobbyist 'lifestyle gamer' market.

I'm running a Pathfinder Beginner Box campaign now that accommodates casual, drop-in play. But it took some work to set it up that way. With 1e AD&D that was the default mode of play! With 4e I find it EXTREMELY difficult to accommodate drop-in players, and often have to send them away, to my chagrin.

 

[Incenjucar]

4E takes barely any prep time unless you're coming up to some sort of mental block. 90% of my prep time is just converting monster entries into my preferred format. Not sure how you can have less prep time than 4E unless you have less game than 4E, which I suppose is true enough for old school fighters. Don't confuse "person with free time" and "lifestyler."

 

[S'mon]

4E takes barely any prep time unless you're coming up to some sort of mental block. 90% of my prep time is just converting monster entries into my preferred format. Not sure how you can have less prep time than 4E unless you have less game than 4E, which I suppose is true enough for old school fighters. Don't confuse "person with free time" and "lifestyler."

Prepping a 1e monster is one line, usually takes a couple seconds, couple minutes for a complex NPC. Prepping a 4e monster stat block (new or adapted) takes maybe 20-30* minutes. Hell, just *reading* them takes a minute or two! Nothing like trying to prep (or read) a high level 3e NPC stat block, of course.

*Although I suspect it's using the monster builders that takes most of the time; improvised 4e stats can be done fast.

Then there's creating encounters' terrain, maybe a skill challenge, and other stuff that 1e doesn't worry about.

I don't get burnt out on 4e the way I did with 3e, but it is obviously a game that is higher prep than 1e.

 

[Incenjucar]

That sounds like "Less Game" to me, like playing checkers instead of chess. Not saying it's less fun or less anything else, but in 4E terms that sounds like "brutes vs. slayers in a 10x10 box." For the amount of actual game-specific play you get, 4E gets you a heck of a lot of bang for your time.

You don't have to use any more terrain than in other games, it just makes better use of 4E's options, while previous editions are more terrain-neutral.

That said, there's certainly room for quickie rules for 4E, and it certainly doesn't default at slayers.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I'm not thinking clearly.

I agree with this, but my currently fogged mind misunderstood at first: I had pictured sweeping, mesa-filled landscapes and a corral full of cowboys with purple hair, big eyes and oversized guns trying to bust multi-tailed broncos with flaming hooves and "power readings greater than any they had ever seen before!!!!!!"*

Of course, any student of art history will know the influence goes both ways.

Hmmm, how am I going to work the purple haired cowboys into my next adventure? lol.










* somebody e-mail that to weem[/QUOTE]

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Prepping a 1e monster is one line, usually takes a couple seconds, couple minutes for a complex NPC. Prepping a 4e monster stat block (new or adapted) takes maybe 20-30* minutes. Hell, just *reading* them takes a minute or two! Nothing like trying to prep (or read) a high level 3e NPC stat block, of course.

*Although I suspect it's using the monster builders that takes most of the time; improvised 4e stats can be done fast.

Then there's creating encounters' terrain, maybe a skill challenge, and other stuff that 1e doesn't worry about.

I don't get burnt out on 4e the way I did with 3e, but it is obviously a game that is higher prep than 1e.

I think it is all partly a style thing. I go pretty lazy with my 4e stuff in terms of prep. These days I usually just find a few stat blocks in the Compendium, print them out, write a line of notes saying "fluff this and that as such and such" assuming there's any refluffing at all. Once in a while I make up a stat block or really hack one, but not often anymore. Seems a lot like the old 1e days really.

PCs are LITTLE bit more intensive, but not too much. I mean even with 1e you still had to pick spells and equipment and whatnot.

 

[Incenjucar]

For the way I DM 4E, all I need is some bullet points, some quickly-drawn maps (I draw them out at the table on one of those wet-erase mats, so it HAS to be quickly-drawn), monster stats, and an idea in my head.

In fact, here's an example of my actual notes from a pivotal moment in my current game. I have only removed the monster stat blocks and magic item text. This is an entire level of adventuring.

Encounter 1: Boarding the Fishing Boat
Fisherman Trapper x2 (150xp)
Fisherman Gutter x2 (175xp)
+1 Gutter Party>5

Encounter 2: Sinking the Warship
Fisherman Hunter x3
Fisherman Line Spikers (x6)
Fisherman Butcher x3
+1 Hunter +1 Spiker Party>5

Adventure Gain
+2 Sacrificial Longsword
Blackleaf Gloves
1355 GP

Encounter 3: Beachhead
Twig Blight x4
Twig Blight Swampvine x2
+1 Swampvine Party>5

Encounter 4: Hungry Forest
205 GP mixed amber, pearls, seashells (acting as a lure)

Twig Blight Swarm x1 (200xp)
Twig Blight x4 (500xp)
Twig Blight Seedlings x4 (200xp)
+1 Swampvine Party>5

Encounter 5: Rotweed
Rotweed x1 (350xp)
Twig Blight Swampvine x4 (450xp)
+4 Twig Blight Seedlings Party>5

+2 Sacrificial Longsword

Encounter 6: Orc Patrol/Gathering Party

Battletested Orc x3 (450xp)
Orc Archer x1 (175xp)
Orc Savage x4 (175xp)

+1 Battletested Orc Party>5

On Archer:
50gp Alchemical Reagents (Arcana)
50gp Mystic Salves (Heal)
50gp Rare Herbs (Nature)
50gp Sanctified Incense (Religion)

Encounter 7: Lady Zill and the Nest Guard
Battletested Orc x3 (450xp)
Orc Archer x2 (350xp)
Lady Zill (175xp)
+1 Battletested Orc Party>5
On Lady Zill: Ornate Silver Dagger (755gp), Blackleaf Gloves

Encounter 8: The Shadow Dragon’s Lair
Majestrix (400xp)
Battletested Orc x4 (600)
+4 Savage Orcs Party>5
On Battletested Orcs: Black lacquered battle axe (100gp)


Only book I need to keep on me is the rules compendium, and that almost never gets taken out. I barely even use the GM screen that I keep up.

 

[S'mon]

That sounds like "Less Game" to me, like playing checkers instead of chess. Not saying it's less fun or less anything else, but in 4E terms that sounds like "brutes vs. slayers in a 10x10 box." For the amount of actual game-specific play you get, 4E gets you a heck of a lot of bang for your time.

I'm not entirely sure what your definition of 'game' is. I think you're saying that you value the complexity of 4e combat and don't like simpler combat systems, which to you are 'less game' - less value/less fun? Or 'crunch' = 'game', so the more rules, the better?

I like 4e combat. It goes on way too long, though. The combat is not the whole 'game', to me. 4e combat IME gets in the way of exploration and in-character interaction - talking to NPCs - two things I regard as just as much part of the game. They were traditionally part of D&D, and should be part of D&D, IMO. I find that after a two hour combat I just want to call it a night, there's no energy left for anything else.