D&D 3E/3.5 D&D 3.5 Magic Item Creation Feat Prerequisite and Practiced Spellcaster

[Herzog]

First, some info:

-I know Spellcaster Level 5th means (according to the FAQ) you need to have 5 levels in a spellcasting class. As an example, you could qualify as a fifth level Paladin.
-I know the table in the PHB lists the requirement for Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat as Spellcaster level 5th.
-I also know the TEXT of the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat lists the requirement as Caster Level 5th.
-I also know text trumps table.

-I know the Practiced Spellcaster feat requires 4 ranks in spellcraft.

Questions:

1. given the above, can I take Practiced Spellcaster without having any caster level (no levels in a spellcasting class) at that moment?
2. Can I then, at a later level, take one level of a spellcasting class (for example, Cleric) and have the Practiced Spellcaster apply to that class?
3. Does this combination allow me to take Craft Magic Arms and Armor?

If any of the above questions leads to a 'No', why?

 

[frankthedm]

1. given the above, can I take Practiced Spellcaster without having any caster level (no levels in a spellcasting class) at that moment?

Even if you could take it, you'd never benefit from it if you take it before you have a spellcasting class. You'd have the feat and unable to select the class since you don't posses it yet and the feat is unchangeable at later times.

Choose a spellcasting class that you possess. Your spells cast from that class are more powerful.

 

[Sekhmet]

Practiced Spellcaster has the following errata: Practiced Spellcaster refers only to your caster level, not your actual level. Feats and Prestige Classes that require "Spellcaster level 5th" (as an example) require your actual level in a spellcasting class to be 5th. A 5th level Paladin fulfills the requirement of "Spellcaster level 5th" at 5th level, even though his caster level is only 2nd.

So... there is that.

 

[Herzog]

As I said, text trumps table, and the table lists 'caster level 5th'.
This is enforced by the discussion on caster lvl vs spellcaster lvl in the complete adventurer p.72, which specifically refers to an item creation feat having caster level requirement instead of spellcaster requirement.

As to the practiced spellcaster before taking the spellcaster class: i was afraid of that.

Guess i'll have to rethink my options, or try to convince my dm to allow it anyway...

 

[Belzbet]

I know this is no authority but the game Neverwinter Nights 2 (which runs off of 3.5 edition) does let you take Craft Magic Arms and Armor if you have "Practiced Spellcaster" with only one level of Sorcerer (or more generally one level of spellcasting class) and with the rest of your levels being in fighter (or more generally a non-spellcasting class). I created a module where you can go from 1 to 20 levels (very easily) and then go fight Pitfiends and Balors. I just now created a fighter gave him 5 levels of fighter with 4 ranks in spellcraft but it wouldnt let me take Practiced Spellcaster unless I took a level in Sorc first. So, I had 5fighter/1sorc but I had to wait for level 9 to get another feat. So, at 8fighter/1sorc (Cl=5). the game let me get Craft Magic Arms and armors. But , again, the gameisnt really the best authority.
But, as others have pointed out, the problem of taking Practiced Spellcaster before you have levels in a spellcaster class is still there.

 

[Herzog]

Just had a thought:

Would a Ranger 2 with practiced spellcaster count as caster level 5?

Or does a ranger need to reach lvl 4 before having a casterlevel?

 

[TanisFrey]

Just had a thought:

Would a Ranger 2 with practiced spellcaster count as caster level 5?

Or does a ranger need to reach lvl 4 before having a casterlevel?

A Ranger or Paladin does not get a spellcaster level until 4th level if their wisdom is high enough for a bonus spell or 5th level if wis is not high.

Practiced Spellcaster does have a limit that it cannot raise your effective caster level greater than your HD. So a spellcasting 4th level Ranger with Practiced Spellcaster is effectively 4th level caster level, the other two levels are not used until the ranger levels up.

If you want a nonspellcaster to be able to get craft feats ask the dm if you can import one feat from pathfinder. Master Craftsman allows you to take a magic item creation feat if your craft skill is high enough. In pathfinder this is 5 ranks of Craft:weaponsmithing or Craft:Armorsmithing for Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft:Weaving or Craft:Blacksmithing to get Craft Wondrous Items and Craft:Brewing for Brew Potion. Effective caster level is equal to your ranks. When converting the skill system of pathfinder to D&D 3.5 it should change to 8 ranks (However, effective caster level should be number of ranks D&D3.5 -3.) It did still say they needed a spellcaster present during crafting of magic items to provide the spells but the Master Craftsman would pay the XP cost.

 

[Herzog]

Found it myself...

PH p.48:
'Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his ranger level.'

Just thought I should mention that. Note that there is no restriction on actually being able to cast spells, meaning even with a WIS of 3 a 4th lvl ranger has a caster level of 2....



And I do not actually need to be able to craft, just wanted to see whether I could qualify for a Prestige Class without taking 5 levels of Cleric. Turns out the Prestige Class ALSO requires being able to cast a 3rd lvl divine spell, so the discussion has become kind of moot.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

And I do not actually need to be able to craft, just wanted to see whether I could qualify for a Prestige Class without taking 5 levels of Cleric. Turns out the Prestige Class ALSO requires being able to cast a 3rd lvl divine spell, so the discussion has become kind of moot.

Perhaps if you post us the question, "How could I qualify for this PrC (InsertNameOfPrCHere) without taking 5 levels of Cleric" we could help brainstorm clever options for you.

 

[Herzog]

I don't know which book it is from (DM provided the prestige class as a seperate text because he wants to limit access to the rest of the book) and there were other 'issues' with the PrC that made me wonder whether I should take it at all. The prerequisite did, however, raise several questions about being able to qualify for certain parts, so I thought I'd ask them seperately.

I've since moved on to other options (and those raised qualification questions as well, but I'll start a new thread for that.....)