D&D 5E Monte Cook Leaves WotC - No Longer working on D&D Next [updated]

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I would not be surprised if their stock suffered on that day (would have to look).

It went up $0.10 that day and up another $0.62 the next day. But if anyone believes that his arrival or departure as Lead Designer affected Hasbro's stock price in any way, then they have confused Monte Cook with the likes of Steve Jobs.

 

[Cybit]

I imagine more of it has to do with Monte wanting to work on 3rd party content for a game he is helping develop (ala 3rd Edition), and Hasbro legal said "heck no, make it first party for us."

Basically, I'd look and see if something shows up on Kickstarter from him about a new game design project.

 

[Incenjucar]

More baseless speculation:

What are the labor laws like in Washington state? Is there a six-month limit on temporary employment, as we have (or at least had) in Oregon? I recall back in March, 1992 I was hired temporarily by a large company, then converted to full-time in September, 1992, because they would have had to lay me off otherwise: Oregon laws state(d) that employers cannot (could not?) keep "temporary" workers in temporary status permanently, because doing so was bypassing the requirements of providing full employment benefits for long-term employees.

If WotC couldn't keep Monte "temporary" longer than six months, and they offered Monte a "permanent" employment package that he didn't like, that development by itself could explain his departure without needing any other (and more-complicated) reasons.

It's 1 year in Washington, then a 100-day break is required.

 

[Falstaff]

100K subscribers is less than 5% of the people playing D&D 25 years ago. How many of those are paid, vs given away for taking part in events and such? More things we don't know, meaning # of subscribers is just as "useless" as the reports from reputable monitoring companies that PF was outselling 4e over the last 3 quarters (some of which predate the 5e announcement)

50 million is the amount needed to become a FLAGSHIP product. Not just to exist in Hasbro (as has been mentioned quite a few times). That wasn't a "make 50 million or get dropped". I believe it was Umbran or Morrus who mentioned that Hasbro only made 650 million last year, and they have far more than 13 product lines. TSR made 40 million back in the 80s....adjust that for inflation...and it can be done.

Like 4e or not, the changes to the game, the changes to settings and all the associated baggage lost them customers. Far more than they gained in new players, or we wouldn't be here right now. Good lord, their superstar writer (Salvatore) even called them out in public about the game and the changes. That's an issue.

If they want a successful 5e, they need to walk the line between keeping the 4e people and bringing back the lapsed customers. Loosing the guy with the old school credentials and trust is not the way to do this. They need to bring someone else in that the prior edition people have some faith in, or they need to hit a homerun with the open playtest.
If they can't do that, then they should just make 4.5, and give up on ever getting those people back.
I will download the open playtest docs, I will run a group through the scenerios. If it feels more like 4e than 1/2/3 or even better, it's own system, I will be done with it. THIS is their shot to take my gaming money away from Paizo.
I WANT to spend money on D&D and a shiny new edition. I like new books. By the same token, they've constantly failed to deliver over the last 4 years, and my patience is at an end.

Show us you want us back by bringing in someone with old school credentials or make sure 5e is it's own animal by the 24th of May.

Great post. You sum up my feels pretty much. I'm willing to look at 5th edition, but as soon as I see anything like dragon-people as a PC option or powers or magic items in the player's section, etc. I'm walking away (again). If 5th edition is as close to my Moldvay D&D books as it can be, then I'm in.

But I'm not too worried. I mean I wanna like 5th edition, it would be nice to be involved with modern D&D, but I can always play the edition I like, regardless of what WotC designs.

I'm not all that interested in the playtests. From what I understand the playtests are for gamers to be able to tell WotC what they want in their D&D. I can do that without any playtests. I can just hand Mearls my Basic and 1st edition books and say "this is what I want."

 

[Herschel]

See ya! He seems like a good guy but I'm not fond of his stuff. I'm feeling a little better about DDN already.

 

[gweinel]

Rich Baker and Monte Cook both unemployed at the same time?

I smell the start of an awesome new game company...

Damn... Rich Baker and Monte consistis the 2/3 of my designers dream team. If they put Zeb Cook in the "utopian" project too then i can be a happy man who expects the awesome!

 

[Kobold Boots]

Great post. You sum up my feels pretty much. I'm willing to look at 5th edition, but as soon as I see anything like dragon-people as a PC option or powers or magic items in the player's section, etc. I'm walking away (again). If 5th edition is as close to my Moldvay D&D books as it can be, then I'm in.

1. On 50 million adjusted for inflation...
a. I do not believe that D&D products alone ever earned that much profit annually even in the 80's. Sales.. sure.
b. Culture has catered to the geek since then. We have video games that are just as immersive if not more immersive than RPGs.
c. Pathfinder isn't going away and the market is split. WoTC will not get back the Pathfinder players if Pathfinder continues to put out good stuff.

So the competition for the time of those with disposable income is better and the adults that are nostalgic may not have the time to play often.

2. On recreating basic D&D with 5e.
a. You may be able to create a version of 5e that does that with modules or core.
b. If that's all you want, you're better off sticking with your stuff you have.

 

[jmucchiello]

b. Culture has catered to the geek since then. We have video games that are just as immersive if not more immersive than RPGs.

Maybe you have, but I have never met such a video game. No video game has ever nor will ever be as cool as the stories me and 4-5 friends tell with a table top RPG.

b. If that's all you want, you're better off sticking with your stuff you have.

That applies to all RPGs, old or new. There are thousands of RPGs in existence with millions of pages of material just sitting out there collecting dust with more ideas than anyone could ever use in a lifetime. Who needs a new edition of any RPG really?

 

[Kobold Boots]

Maybe you have, but I have never met such a video game. No video game has ever nor will ever be as cool as the stories me and 4-5 friends tell with a table top RPG.

Everyone's entitled an opinion. Mine is that if I get the same friends on Ventrilo and shoot the breeze while killing orcs in WoW or LoTR Online or whatever there is out there; then I'm functionally replacing shooting the breeze with them at the game table without having to come up with a story and finding prep time. (visuals are better, general user experience is better.. story isn't as flexible but whatever.)

Regardless of opinion though, it's a competing force that we didn't have to deal with in the 80s. The options for geeky social time were more limited.

That applies to all RPGs, old or new. There are thousands of RPGs in existence with millions of pages of material just sitting out there collecting dust with more ideas than anyone could ever use in a lifetime. Who needs a new edition of any RPG really?

Agreed. This is why the "this new edition must have my old edition" argument is a poorly thought out one at best.

 

[avin]

Great post. You sum up my feels pretty much. I'm willing to look at 5th edition, but as soon as I see anything like dragon-people as a PC option or powers or magic items in the player's section, etc. I'm walking away (again).

Because you just can't say "not in my world"?

There were no halflings in my first homebrew, it's easy to ignore fluff.

Unless you are afraid your players will want to play cooler stuff instead of hobbits

(Just a small rant )