[L&L] Balancing the Wizards in D&D

[avin]

As for the "problem" of using cantrips to bust open locks, your party fighter would like to introduce you to a totally overpowered and game-wrecking device called a sledgehammer.

Can't XP

 

[KidSnide]

And mearls still doesn't seem to quite understand a basic principle of adventure-based design: individual encounters are more disposable. In 5e, it shouldn't be a problem if you grease-glitterdust handicap an iron golem, because the iron golem isn't the only thing you need to kill, and mages only get a handful of spells anyway.

This is a critical point, but it goes both ways. On the one hand, you're totally right, individual encounters are more disposable and the PCs should be expected to blow through some of them with a combination of cleverness, luck and party make-up (where the encounter's vulnerabilities line up with the party's strength).

On the other hand, D&DN should allow DMs to build specific encounters (typically big bad fights), so they are dependably tough and provide a satisfying climax to an adventure. Obviously, wizards should be able to save up their spells and have a big impact on these encounters, but you don't want them blown completely away either. (Or, at least, you want to support DMs who don't want those encounters to be blown completely away.)

-KS

 

[dkyle]

I don't want "miscast" or "dangerous" magic except for rituals. No other class gets class abilities that can randomly screw them or the party, nor should there be for any class. It should be an option for those who want it, but not default.

The problem with making it simply optional (all spells are "safe", vs. all spells are dangerous) is that it's a balance nightmare. To have Wizards be balanced either way, the class and its spells need to be significantly different with and without.

Perhaps there could be a specific "unstable" keyword for some spells, where unstable spells cannot be used if the caster has been damaged since the end of their last turn. Magic Missile wouldn't be "unstable", but Sleep might be.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

How about limiting all characters to acquiring 30 powers?

Instead of limiting the wizard, increase the abilities of the fighter and all the other classes.
A fighter should be able to attack 3 adjacent enemies if a wizard can cast a burst spell on 3 or more enemies.

And if the Wizard can use a burst spell on 10 enemies 30 ft apart at a range of 600 feet away?

Should Fighters be able to teleport 600 feet away and hit 10 enemies?

What if the Wizard can cast a spell that causes all people within the radius to be unable to move unless they roll an 18+ on a die roll in a large radius?

What if the Wizard can make everyone within a radius blind and unable to hide or go invisible for 4 rounds?

What if the Wizard has the ability to planar travel simply by using one power?

There's just no way that anyone would accept these powers as abilities of the Fighter. Well, not MOST people. There's a reason that these powers when given to Fighters seem like an anime. Most anime have solved the Fighter/Wizard divide by not worrying about being grounded in the laws of physics when it comes to characters who "Fight".

So, when it comes to abilities like this, there are only 2 choices in terms of balance: Limit the power of Wizards OR allow the Fighter to break the laws of physics. Looks like they chose the first one.

 

[Tortoise]

I bet more then half the wizards in D&D over the last 40 or so years would have been sitting out 7-10 combat rounds.

That's a bet I would take. A wizard that stands around doing nothing is more likely to get killed than one using a crossbow, throwing daggers, or darts, prepping and throwing lit flasks of oil, fighting with a staff, and doing other things to help the party.

In my experience (since 1981) I have only seen a wizard avoid assisting in whatever way possible once, and that was a doppleganger waiting to strike.

If the wizards in your groups just sit around doing nothing, that is on the player, not the system.

 

[Melkor]

If the wizards in your groups just sit around doing nothing, that is on the player, not the system.

I agree. Quite a few memorable moments have happened in our games from a clever player who's wizard had run out of uber-effective spells.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Give a fighter an axe and he can level a forest!

Give me a fish and I eat for a day.
Teach me to fish and I eat for a lifetime.

ExploderWizard: Teachers are broken.

 

[Stormonu]

Can't XP

Which in this case is good, as it wasn't my qoute

 

[Lanefan]

That's a bet I would take. A wizard that stands around doing nothing is more likely to get killed than one using a crossbow, throwing daggers, or darts, prepping and throwing lit flasks of oil, fighting with a staff, and doing other things to help the party.

In my experience (since 1981) I have only seen a wizard avoid assisting in whatever way possible once, and that was a doppleganger waiting to strike.

If the wizards in your groups just sit around doing nothing, that is on the player, not the system.

Can't XP you right now so you'll just get a "HEAR HEAR!" here.

The other useful things a non-combatant can do: keep watch for new foes arriving, and direct traffic within the battle: "Tordek just got clobbered; Regdar, get clear and help him out!"

Lanefan

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That's a bet I would take. A wizard that stands around doing nothing is more likely to get killed than one using a crossbow, throwing daggers, or darts, prepping and throwing lit flasks of oil, fighting with a staff, and doing other things to help the party.

In my experience (since 1981) I have only seen a wizard avoid assisting in whatever way possible once, and that was a doppleganger waiting to strike.

If the wizards in your groups just sit around doing nothing, that is on the player, not the system.

That's a bet I would take. A wizard that stands around doing nothing is more likely to get killed than one using a crossbow, throwing daggers, or darts, prepping and throwing lit flasks of oil, fighting with a staff, and doing other things to help the party.

so your DM targets non threats with MORE attacks then whimpy AC combatants...even counting melee with a staff?

maybe that was not what you ment, but it is what it comes off as, I will asume there is some miscommunication and move on...

In my experience (since 1981) I have only seen a wizard avoid assisting in whatever way possible once, and that was a doppleganger waiting to strike.

If the wizards in your groups just sit around doing nothing, that is on the player, not the system

Ok, your group all charge in and...um what?

miss alot, AND be on the line of combat...

I guess they are all fighter Mages? or something? I know I can only remember 1 or 2 times that a straight wizard entered combat and made a diffrence. Infact I can think of only 1 time, and it was totaly badass BECUSE it was so rare.

If wizards got +1 to hit (or-1thac0) for the first 3 or 4 levels and d6's for those hp and leather armor (or like 4e int mod over dex) then I would agree, this class is meant to go into a fight with a weapon, and then at latter levels use spells

that is on the player, not the system

is getting very old very quicky, and this is not just to you or even on this topic... but it is SUCH BS... "Your problem is becuse your players are not smart enough" "Your problem can be solved with Better players" is BS
The problem can be solved by makeing all classes contribute to the game.