Monte on Character Creation

[Mark CMG]

Some thoughts from Monte Cook on character creation. I'm sure this thread will have its share of speculation on how this differs from 5E and if that has anything to do with his departure, but it might be worthwhile to examine some of what he says more objectively and how it relates to the history and design of RPGs/D&D overall.

The Chapel Perilous - Character Creation

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Some interesting thoughs reside therein.

It will be interesting to see if his future releases- if any- live up to the criteria he sets down there.

 

[Roland55]

I'm particularly taken with his comments on fast character generation options.

I, myself, have always enjoyed character creation -- even long, elaborate creation sessions. But, I have plenty of friends who DON'T like that, so I've long since had to compromise.

I can see the value in this idea.

 

[Kichwas]

I'm particularly taken with his comments on fast character generation options.

I, myself, have always enjoyed character creation -- even long, elaborate creation sessions. But, I have plenty of friends who DON'T like that, so I've long since had to compromise.

I can see the value in this idea.

This has been a struggle in every gaming campaign I've ever been in.

You always have at least one person on the other side of the spectrum from another - with the rest being here or there, there is always the exception, and sometimes an even divide.

You'll have that player for whom it is very fun to spend hours of time in the group chatting about a character in progress over books, coffee, and spreadsheets.

And across the table will be that person who wants to pick up the sheet, fill in the name, and start killing elves.

Every campaign has that tension. A good way to spot it is to pull out a copy of 5E Hero System revised and a copy of Basic DnD, and see who drools over which.

- One requires trigonometry and finding 'War and Peace' to be too short of a read to be engaging, the other requires knowing how to spell "Leeroy Jenkins."

Making a single game system that can make both of those types of players, and the people in the spectrum between them - that would be golden.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

I agree with some of the points, especially the potential to overwhelm new players, but his one felt a little odd to me:

1. I don't like making decisions based on nothing. I don't like deciding that my character is this great diplomat before I even get a chance to see what the adventure or campaign is going to be like.

I can't think of a game that I've played in recently where the DM did not give a basic idea of what the campaign or adventure was going to be like a head of time. If that is a problem, I think it's more with the DM than with any system.

 

[Kinak]

Lots of good thoughts in there and I'd cheerfully buy any game he designed on those principles.

I almost always GM, so everything about wanting simple build options goes double. I want to be able to construct NPCs and monsters quickly so I can get to the juicy plot planning. And get the players through creation so we can work on backstory and get moving.

3. Choices that are not entirely front loaded. A lot of people want to be able to shape their whole character to fit their character concept right out of the gate, I get that. But others don't want to have to make decisions way ahead of time. In real life, and even in (good) fiction, people change over time. They develop. I'd like to create a game that embraced that idea. Where not all your character defining choices had to be made before the first adventure even started.

I've wondered before how well it would work to choose Elf Ranger, get your basic stats, and jump in. Then, as the game progresses, choose your specialization and feats and skills and all that.

I'm picturing something only slightly more complicated than OD&D character creations (you have to choose a race and a class) with the specializations coming in stages after that. Maybe along the lines of the job system in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

Anyway, this was a great article and very thought-provoking. Thanks for posting it.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[Ahnehnois]

Lots of pregenerated characters.

I hate pregenerated characters. Replacing an organically designed character with a pregen is like replacing a basketball game with a slam dunk competition. It might be fun in its own right, but if you do that, you've pretty much taken out the heart of the game.

Fast character generation options.

That is...okay. Why would anyone ever want anything to be slow?

Choices that are not entirely front loaded.

The antithesis of front-loading choices is having a steep power curve. I would much rather be locked in to a suboptimal choice than have a 2nd level character be twice as powerful as a 1st level character. If anything, D&D characters change too much when they level.

 

[Hal G]

I do see what he is saying, if you want to plat an elf mage and one is a pregen, use it and make him what you envisioned, the fluff is up to you. But there is something about making one from start. Good read

 

[justinhalliday]

I totally agree with his post. And in addition to the option anxiety of all of the damned choices (which weapon, which build, which feats, which class features, which background, etc), the other problem with all of the 'choices' is that they usually introduce options that are strictly better than other options, and they progressively unbalance the game and lead to out-of-control powergaming.

In my game system I stripped back the character creation options to Class, Race, and Ability Scores (all of the proficiencies, spells, and combat powers come with the classes). Players can then choose to add some class/race appropriate skills and character traits, but those are optional, and their impact on the game is up to the GM.

 

[Kzach]

I rarely disagree with Monte but this is one of those times.

If you're an entry-level player then you take a pre-gen. Whenever I have a newbie player I ask them what they're interested in, ie. do you like hitting things with a big sword or making things burst into flames? And I give them a pregen that fits.

But once you're a regular player then quite frankly, I expect you to have a solid grasp on the rules and options available to you as a player and to be competent enough to make up a character using those options to their fullest advantage. And if you're not, then I question just how invested you are in the game.

One thing that peeves me off is players who put in so little effort that they can't remember basic plot points, major NPC names, or their own character's powers and abilities. As a DM, I'm expected to know everything and be ultra prepared and yet players think they don't have any responsibility towards the maintenance and progression of the game and the group. That just doesn't cut it, as far as I'm concerned.