Monsters with spell lists is not a good sign

[ferratus]

I know many people found the 4e approach made it easier for them to run monsters. I found it harder than previous editions (and I might not have been the only one!)

That would be the difference. I never memorized all the spells, so when I ran spellcasting monsters I always had to look the spells up. Very annoying and inconvenient.

 

[Keldryn]

For what it is worth, I (and I guess many others) quite like to see spells listed in a monster stat block - because spells are common currency and I find them dead easy to memorise. Know one fireball, you know them all. The 4e monster powers didn't work well for me at all - because every little monster had something slightly different, I found it impossible to memorise all the necessary stuff.

I know many people found the 4e approach made it easier for them to run monsters. I found it harder than previous editions (and I might not have been the only one!)

Definitely not the only one. This was one of the things that made DMing 4e a real chore for me.

After playing D&D since 1987 and hundreds of hours playing the AD&D Gold Box computer games, the Baldur's Gate series, and the Eye of the Beholder series, I know what the majority of low- and mid-level spells do (even if not every single detail). I never set out to memorize them, I just learned them through repeated use.

I really liked all of the unique monster powers in 4e before I actually tried running the game. I was never able to keep it all straight during the game without slowing things down considerably to review the stat blocks throughout the encounter. Even then, I still kept missing things.

I think the best compromise is to stick to standard spells as much as possible and include a brief summary in the statblock:

Fireball: Range 100'; 5d6 damage in a 20' radius; Dex save for half damage.

That's enough to handle 90% of the cases that the monster will use the ability. The rare time that I need to know more details, I can look it up. If I have the basic details of Fireball memorized already, I can skip over that part of the entry.

 

[ferratus]

I think the best compromise is to stick to standard spells as much as possible and include a brief summary in the statblock:

Fireball: Range 100'; 5d6 damage in a 20' radius; Dex save for half damage.

That's enough to handle 90% of the cases that the monster will use the ability. The rare time that I need to know more details, I can look it up. If I have the basic details of Fireball memorized already, I can skip over that part of the entry.

As a guy from the other side (who finds memorizing spells to be a boring waste of time) I could certainly live with that. The stripped down spell without flavour text or special applications/complications in the Monster Manual, and the more detailed version if I want he monster to be clever in the PHB. As long as looking up the spell is worth it, and I only have to do it occasionally, it wouldn't be so bad.

I would also say that when a monster ability is similar to a common player class ability, they should just use the player class ability. That keeps down the 4e problem of looking over each slightly different special attack, and getting mixed up.

 

[Dausuul]

Let's keep this in perspective, folks. The bestiary contains exactly one monster type with spells, and that monster type is "dark cultist"--they're NPC clerics! I think it's reasonable to give spells to actual spellcasters.

Now, if we start seeing demons with a million SLAs again, I will be the first to cry foul. But based on what we have so far seen, I'm not worried.

 

[ren1999]

You can count me as a nay.
I don't even look up all the spells for monsters in Pathfinder anymore. I'm just choosing the 4 most interesting or likely powers that a creature might have and looking those up -- though it is a pain.

I want the monster stat blocks in 5th edition to have detailed notes to the right of no more than 4 or 5 powers.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I don't mind if they lower the amount of SLA's (even though I like them) - but I want my enemy spellcasters to be spellcasters.

 

[Transformer]

Definitely, 5e monster stat blocks must have at least summary-version writeups of all spell-like abilities and actual spells a monster uses. It's a huge practical consideration with very little going against it.

 

[Sunseeker]

I don't like spell lists.
I don't like overly worded spells.
I don't like feat lists(save for very obvious ones).
I have no desire to print out 10 pages per NPC.
Chances are, if my monster has a spell, and I don't know what it does, my monster isn't going to use it.

Now, NPC humanoids with caster classes should have spell lists. They're humanoids with classes! But I would prefer my monsters to have unique abilities that are concisely explained on their page, over magical ability.

Also: SOD's still suck!

 

[Ahnehnois]

If PCs have spell lists, monsters have spell lists.

Definitely, 5e monster stat blocks must have at least summary-version writeups of all spell-like abilities and actual spells a monster uses. It's a huge practical consideration with very little going against it.

And, while looking up things is annoying, having content duplicated just so it can be in a monster stat block is really annoying, because it means I'm paying money for the same content multiple times. It also tends to make stat blocks unwieldy. I hate when monsters go over 1 page. Hopefully, online tools can make referencing easier, but there really no better ways of doing this.

***

Incidentally, does this mean that people are actually using stat blocks straight out of the monster manual during play? Monster books are usually my facorite books. However, in over ten years, I've only done this a few times, usually for summoned monsters and always out of desperation. Regardless of how it's formatted, the monster in the manual is an 'average' monster, something I would never want my PCs to encounter. Thus, I'm not really seeing how usability of a stat block in play is a big issue.

Life is too short for 'average'.

 

[Janaxstrus]

Monsters with spells is awesome, so I have to disagree.
Monsters following the same rules as PCs would be even more awesome in my opinion.

Not EVERY monster needs special abilities or spells though.