Dear Wizards of the Coast blog post...

[JRRNeiklot]

But okay, let's assume I'm a WotC manager and you want me to publish old modules as pdf or print on demand. Sure, show me the numbers!

As far as I would know, a new edition core book sells what, 1 million copies? The market for old edition books on ebay is what, a few thousand copies a year? The total of retroclones sold is what, 20.000 copies (assuming 1000 copies sold per game and 20 games out there). And yes, I've heard of the long tail, thanks.

Now you explain to me how I grow a $50m brand by selling reprinted collector's items to a niche audience.

Retroclones don't have D&D on the cover.

I think you vastly underestimate the number of people playing older editions, but I suppose we will see in July.

 

[Ranganathan]

I see no reason to believe that the RPG market is similar to the toothpaste market. You need to buy toothpaste regularly when it runs out, and you can count on brand attachment. You do not need to buy RPG products regularly, and they are not widely considered a necessity.

Crest having 17 kinds of toothpaste allows it to compete better with other brands - it helps with shelf space, ad campaigns, etc, and their market is literally every person in the country.

This does not hold true for RPGs.

-O

All true. However, RPGs are not exclusive, typically. A gamer doesn't usually have such brand loyalty that they only buy one--and only one--game. There are collectors who buy whatever they can of games they like without ever playing them. There are gamers dedicated to fantasy who buy anything that looks good. And this doesn't apply to just D&D, but all games. Buying the 5E PHB does not preclude you from buying any other PHB ever. People are introduced to games before they buy them, if it's fun, they pick up a book or two.

Look over at the poll about people switching to 5E. All those customers--all those sales--just sitting there, waiting for WotC to sell them a product they want, which WotC owns the rights to. Despite all the faults people seem to find with the blog quoted up top, it was perfectly correct when it said you can't make people buy something they don't want, and it's really damned hard to convince people they want something. Especially those people who have resisted that same call of a shiny new edition several times over.

People already have all the older editions that they like. The people who won't switch, won't switch. Those who will switch, will. The people holding on to their older stuff and staying put aren't going to be swayed easily, if at all. But, all those people are potential sales of new copies of those older editions. This is a simple fact that is being overlooked.

People will switch or not switch to 5E for their own reasons. Other than making a great edition or a crappy edition, WotC can't really do a damned thing about it. The old line of Wizards coming to your house and stealing your books comes to mind. If they'd rather play older stuff they're going to despite what WotC does. But, what WotC can do is sell them what they want.

They don't have to actively support each edition, but they can sell edition neutral materials, like setting material. Right now people play 2E Forgotten Realms and WotC makes bupkis. If WotC re-released 2E core books and 2E Forgotten Realms setting material, those are all potential sales.

Look at those poll numbers again. After 30 years of being tempted by a long chain of new shiny stuff, some people are simply staying put. That's a fact. And each one of those people are competing for a dwindling supply of paper books long out of print. WotC would be stupid not to try to capitalize on their catalog. How many users does Dragonsfoot have? Almost 8000. Each one a fan of pre-WotC material. Some play WotC D&D, sure. But how many? Each one of those is a customer WotC is throwing away. It really is a ridiculous business model.

 

[jadrax]

I think you vastly underestimate the number of people playing older editions, but I suppose we will see in July.

I think there's a ton of people playing old editions, probably more than play current editions.

The problem is, they often do not seem to actually buy stuff, even when its aimed at their edition of choice. I am also not sure that the Venn Diagram of 'people who play AD&D' and 'People who think .pdf is the devil's work' doesn't have a huge overlapping area.

A more profitable route might be if WotC start re-releasing old material duel-statted for both its original rules and 5th edition. But that relies on the 5th edition rules actually ending up working as a bridge between editions and that the cost/reward ratio of doing that matches up the cost/reward ratio of just making new stuff. It will be interesting to wee what happens.

 

[GX.Sigma]

A more profitable route might be if WotC start re-releasing old material duel-statted for both its original rules and 5th edition.

1. Look at old materials
2. Subtract all values of AC from 20
3. Improvise ability check DCs on the fly (as normal)

In my experience, that's all it takes to convert from BD&D/AD&D to D&DN.

 

[underfoot007ct]

Damn and I thought I was a skilled troll.

Sounds like even the "master" can still learn things.

 

[Oni]

While I certainly don't think it would hurt them to have all their old catalog on PoD, and it might even make them a small amount of money and would certainly earn them some good will, I definitely don't want them to stop working on the new edition, that would be foolish. I want 5e, I like new games. Make a solid game I'll enjoy and even if it doesn't become my main game I'll spend some time with it and lend it a little support.

 

[mkill]

Retroclones don't have D&D on the cover.

I think you vastly underestimate the number of people playing older editions, but I suppose we will see in July.

Well, I think I don't. I think you overestimate sales figures for anything in the RPG industry that's not a PHB of the current D&D version.
For most indie products, 10.000 is a massive success.

But yeah, we'll see in July. If WotC sells enough of reprinted AD&D 1st we may see more reprints. Too bad WotC sales figures are so hard to get; it would be quite interesting.

 

[nnms]

I do think the "revamp the game to resell core rulebooks" model is utterly broken. It just pisses people off and divides the audience by edition.

I think Ryan Dancey was right on when he described 3.5 as the beginning of the current problems. All those retailers stuck with product on their shelves and people deciding whether or not to rebuy the rules. Then 4E did it again. Now D&D Next.

Other games like Call of Cthulhu have chugged along without massive redesigns from the ground up while WotC has just fractured their customer base again and again over the last 12 years.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yet, there are thirty kinds of cheese made by a single manufacturer. Scores of ice cream flavors. Dozens of lines of cars and trucks put made by the same company. People who won't buy a new edition, won't buy a new edition. They still play the old stuff. WotC choosing not to profit from that is bad business.

Old books wear out, break down. There are only so many copies that were printed. They won't last forever. There's also digital publishing to consider. As stated, people want digital so they'll get it. Legally or illegally. Wizards only choice in this is whether to make money from it or not. Choosing not to make money is bad business.

Usually I don´t eat my books.

So when I have bought one book, I won´t buy it again.


The problem is not wotc. They did not divide the fan base. The fan base divided themselves, because they wanted. There are different playstyles. And as long as you don´t dismiss other playstyles as badwrongfun, nothing bad happens.

And @5th edition:
fresh wind is needed. Just because a car company has a car, that was very successful once (VW beetle) does not mean, they eventually need to renew something. A lot of companies wet down, because they feared innovation and missed the right time to change.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I do think the "revamp the game to resell core rulebooks" model is utterly broken. It just pisses people off and divides the audience by edition.

I think Ryan Dancey was right on when he described 3.5 as the beginning of the current problems. All those retailers stuck with product on their shelves and people deciding whether or not to rebuy the rules. Then 4E did it again. Now D&D Next.

Other games like Call of Cthulhu have chugged along without massive redesigns from the ground up while WotC has just fractured their customer base again and again over the last 12 years.

because the fanbase is a lot smaller.

D&D is prone to beeing fractured more easily is because of the critical mass. If there are 5 people in a region palying call of cthulu, they sit together and talk about which way to play.
If there are 100 people at one place, those with similar opinions find each other and look down at people playing D&D like diablo, wow, harry potter and whatever... and they feel better... this sadly is the way it works.