D&D General What Does New Coke Tell Us About Designing for D&D

[Oofta]

+1

I'we never been particularly passionate about my chosen career field. My passion was art history and literature. But i got degree in mechanical engineering. Not because i'm very passionate about it, but cause that art degree was worthless at the time (still is, best you can do with it is teach art in high school or if you are really lucky, become assistant/professor at university), i had affinity for mechanics and electronics, was good at it, and it offered solid career options. Same with jobs. Joined army cause it offered solid pay that was on time ( believe it or not, at that time in my country, regular pay was benefit), high job security (hard to get fired) and some other minor benefits. No passion, but i was very good at it. And on every job after. Even now, most of my job is boring, but it gives good pay and solid benefits and i'm damn good at it. I work to live, not other way around. Job is there to pay for things i really love.

I reserve my passion for things outside of work. Things i'm passionate about, i'm willing to do for free, even pay to do them.

When it comes to games and designers ( worked in product design), it's not about being passionate. It's about delivering solid product your customer base is willing to pay. If we go by the numbers, WoTC is doing it just fine.

I think there's this myth that your vocation, what you do to make a living, should be this miraculously fulfilling and dream job where you follow your bliss. It can be a corrosive attitude when people wake up one day and realize that they're fine with their job, even enjoy it most of the time. I also think it's insulting to say that you have to be borderline obsessed with your job in order to be excellent at it.

I did a quick search and found an article (Why Following Your Bliss Won't Lead To Bliss) that states it better than I can. The bolded is pretty much my attitude towards work.

Are you willing to suffer for your career? It’s more necessary than many people today will admit. “Do what you love” sounds easy… except for the fact that love is hard and sometimes is an illusion.​

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I’ve argued that there are plenty of good reasons to resist those noble slogans about doing what you love or pursuing your passion or following your bliss.​

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I’m not as anti-love as it may seem at first glance. If you’re doing work that you enjoy and you’re happy and the bills are being paid, then you are to be envied.​

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I’m more concerned with speaking to that naïve and gullible side within each of us, which is tempted to fall for the myth that, once you find work that you think you love, you’ll never actually feel like you’re working.​

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“Do what you love” wrongly implies that there is some job or task or cause that you will always love and will always want to report to duty for.​

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“Follow your bliss” implies that bliss will be a magical amulet to protect you from hardship.​

In any case this has little to do with D&D. I just reject this notion that the only good games are those that are passionate about making the game.

 

[The Soloist]

As an artist myself, I've met several totally amoral artists who manipulate others to get what they want without paying for it, be it rent, food, clothes, tattoos, etc. They are extremely passionate and talented but not people I want in my life or support by buying their production. You can be 100% passionate about your work and be a total as$hol3.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

people do terrible things in pursuit of all sorts of different goals. It’s not always money.

 

[Staffan]

I think there's this myth that your vocation, what you do to make a living, should be this miraculously fulfilling and dream job where you follow your bliss. It can be a corrosive attitude when people wake up one day and realize that they're fine with their job, even enjoy it most of the time. I also think it's insulting to say that you have to be borderline obsessed with your job in order to be excellent at it.

The problem with turning your passion into your job is that, well, then your passion becomes a job. It becomes something you have to do, even when you're not in the mood for it. And that's the kind of thing that can poison your relation with your passion.

I figure the ideal situation is one where you enjoy your job, but still have fulfilling activities outside of it.

 

[mamba]

I think there's this myth that your vocation, what you do to make a living, should be this miraculously fulfilling and dream job where you follow your bliss. It can be a corrosive attitude when people wake up one day and realize that they're fine with their job, even enjoy it most of the time.

There are not many jobs where you do only what you enjoy, unless maybe as some kind of artist (and even then there is most likely a lot that comes with it that you do not enjoy, like promotion). You seem to take the most extreme position and equate that with being passionate.

I see it the other way around. If you enjoy your job most of the time, like you say, then that is only true because you are interested in a field you are passionate about. If you weren’t, you would enjoy it a lot less than that.

Being passionate has nothing to do with it being a dream job to me.

I also think it's insulting to say that you have to be borderline obsessed with your job in order to be excellent at it.

passionate <> borderline obsessed, you seem to consider passionate to be a much more extreme thing than I do.

To me it means you are interested in the topic and enjoy it, not that you rather do this than anything else and that you barely can stop yourself from doing it all the time.

That being said, I don’t think you will ever be excellent at something you do not enjoy, and being passionate certainly increases your enjoyment of a task, so there is a correlation. That doesn’t mean you will be excellent at everything you enjoy or not achieve it at anything you do not enjoy. Discipline plays a large role too (and to a lesser degree talent).
Still, I don’t think that most people are excellent at their job, that is a pretty small percentage. Maybe my standards there are higher than yours, unlike on the ‘passionate’ thing

 

[R_J_K75]

If you get ice cubes stuck in your sinus cavity you're doing it wrong.

Cmon? Who doesn't love brain freeze?

 

[Oofta]

There are not many jobs where you do only what you enjoy, unless maybe as some kind of artist (and even then there is most likely a lot that comes with it that you do not enjoy, like promotion). You seem to take the most extreme position and equate that with being passionate.

I see it the other way around. If you enjoy your job most of the time, like you say, then that is only true because you are interested in a field you are passionate about. If you weren’t, you would enjoy it a lot less than that.

Being passionate has nothing to do with it being a dream job to me.


passionate <> borderline obsessed, you seem to consider passionate to be a much more extreme thing than I do.

To me it means you are interested in the topic and enjoy it, not that you rather do this than anything else and that you barely can stop yourself from doing it all the time.

That being said, I don’t think you will ever be excellent at something you do not enjoy, and being passionate certainly increases your enjoyment of a task, so there is a correlation. That doesn’t mean you will be excellent at everything you enjoy or not achieve it at anything you do not enjoy. Discipline plays a large role too (and to a lesser degree talent).
Still, I don’t think that most people are excellent at their job, that is a pretty small percentage. Maybe my standards there are higher than yours, unlike on the ‘passionate’ thing

Then we have a different definition of passionate. Enjoying something, being interested in something, finding something rewarding on a regular basis does not mean passionate to me.

In any case this is philosophical ... it seems to me that people make allusions to games they like being made by people "passionate about their job" as a type of appeal to authority fallacy that we see on this forum on a regular basis. Passion can inspire but it can also blind.

P.S. There have been many times I've been told that I am excellent at my job by peers and reviews even though I would not consider my job my passion. I am not going by "my" standards I'm going by the standards of the people I worked with.

 

[mamba]

In any case this is philosophical ... it seems to me that people make allusions to games they like being made by people "passionate about their job" as a type of appeal to authority fallacy that we see on this forum on a regular basis.

You can be passionate about a lot of things, including very misguided ones.

I am not seeing it as any kind of authority,
and I am not using it as an appeal to authority. As I wrote earlier, I believe the D&D designers are passionate about it and I still won’t switch to 2024.

If I wanted to appeal to something for D&D it would be popularity, not the designer’s passion. I do not expect the latter to be all that different from that of the designers of other games

 

[Oofta]

You can be passionate about a lot of things, including very misguided ones.

I am not seeing it as any kind of authority,
and I am not using it as an appeal to authority. As I wrote earlier, I believe the D&D designers are passionate about it and I still won’t switch to 2024.

If I wanted to appeal to something for D&D it would be popularity, not the designer’s passion. I do not expect the latter to be all that different from that of the designers of other games

I'm talking about variations of the phrase along the lines of "I'd rather buy games from people who are passionate about what they do." I have no problem with the statement "I prefer [insert game or style of game]." Bring "passion" into the argument and it's a meaningless phrase meant to elevate the stated preference.