But is it Art?

[Mishihari Lord]

An RPG and an individual game session can be art, but they don't have to be.

Storytelling is certainly art, as is drama. RPGs are so closely related to these two artforms that it seems very unreasonable to exclude them.

For me, art is an "I know it when I see it but I can't really describe why" type of thing.

Even within a narrow genre certain things will strike my art spot while others miss it. Frex, "Ganster's paradise" and a lot of Eminem's stuff hit my art spot but most rap songs miss it, even when I enjoy them. In video games, "Shadow of the Colossus" is certainly art, while I wouldn't say that "Super Mario Galaxy" is, even though it's a great game, and I'm having a lot of fun playing it with my son.

I guess my definition of art would be "man made beauty, whether intentionally created or not" Under that standard I've even seen software code that is art, though you need a lot of training to be able to see it as such.

 

[Mallus]

Quality writing is art, or can be.

Illustrations are art, or can be.

Graphic design and composition are art, or can be.

TT RPGs are made of three things which at least can be art.

Video games might well be art and if they are, why exclude TT RPGs?

Let me take a stab at this...

I don't think anyone would argue that RPGs don't contain art. The illustrations, graphic design, and fiction embedded in the rules text are art.

(But then again, museums contain art, so does that make a museum itself an artwork, outside of the aesthetic qualities that might be present in their architecture? Aand is the arrangement of individual artworks --ie curation-- itself an art form?)

Do RPGs get used to produce art, ie gaming sessions? Sure. Gaming sessions are a form of drama, well, more often comedy, but the resemble improv theater strongly enough that it's hard to argue sessions aren't art (on occasion).

Are the rules themselves art? My gut reaction is "no, of course not." Procedures aren't art. Then I recall there's this artist movement called Process Art, which well-known contemporary artists like Bruce Nauman and Richard Serra have worked in. I've actually seen the stuff in big museums, art that's more about the process used to create it, the rules, rather than the finished object.

(I don't really like it, but that's no basis for a definition of art).

So where was I? Oh...

RPGs contain art.

RPGs are used in the production of art.

RPGs themselves can be seen as a hybrid of commercial art and Process Art (though I admit it takes a bit of thinky-think to arrive at this conclusion).

Note this is exact opposite of the position I took a few years ago. Consistency... hobgoblins... little minds... etc.

 

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

For me, art is an "I know it when I see it but I can't really describe why" type of thing.

I almost used that phrase in the video.

Can you name a TT RPG product which meets this criteria for you?

 

[Umbran]

Should we consider its aesthetics as being equally important or of superior importance to its game-iness?

Or, mayahps a slight change - consider *when* its aesthetics may be equally important or of superior importance to its game-iness?

I might suggest that the game and aesthetics are of similar importance when the aesthetics are an integral part of the desired play experience. For example, when the game is intended and agreed to be within a given genre, sticking to the genre tropes is enforcement of an aesthetic, and may be as important to the enjoyment of the session/campaign as sticking to the rules.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

I almost used that phrase in the video.

Can you name a TT RPG product which meets this criteria for you?

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the AD&D DMG. I think it might have to do with how it evokes and implies a whole universe of gaming without necessarily describing every part well.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

1. No medium is inherently art.

2. Any medium can be utilized to create art.



That's really all there is to it (in a learn the rules in two seconds, take a lifetime to master them sorta way).


Painting my house isn't art. Singing happy birthday isn't art. Writing a grocery list isn't art. Slogging through Diablo III isn't art. Reheating leftovers isn't art.

BUT.

There are many paintings that are art. Many songs are art. Many great writings (poems, books, etc) are all art. Some skill in playing (as well as designing things) in the medium of video games is art. Creating an exquisite meal can be art.


And of course, as with most any definition, the definition itself is more of a "sphere of accuracy" with "DEFINITELY ART" through "MAYBE? ART" through "I'm pretty sure that ain't art, but some critics disagree."

In RPGS...

...beer and pretzels is usually meant to be "a fun, nonserious game". I'd categorize that style as "not art...but a fun game likely".

...storytelling games CAN fall into the realm of art insofar as stories themselves can (or improv theater can). Some stories are silly little things, some encapsulate emotion, some are very meaningful, some teach a message, and so on. Stories of various qualities "hit" some of the commonly accepted motifs of "art".

...politcal and/or social games CAN fall into the realm of art insofar as art is representative of a culture (or phenomenon)--allegories are often art, as is satire.

...sundry "experience" driven miscellany of RPGs could be art as well. Sometimes art is an "experience" rather than a product or performance. Here I might count some of the more experimental art, particularly that which includes audience participation...so much so that "audience" is an unfair term...more appropriate might be "paying participant artist"?



Usually, but not always, to create art, one starts with a goal of creating something artistic (that being meaningful, spiritual, emotional, political, etc. etc...something that is greater than the medium itself; a pretty picture, a tasty dinner, etc.

Sometimes (and often in the best art) one stumbles into it. In a search for meaning, a person records a diary that becomes read by thousands (I'd call Anne Frank's diary art, but I don't think it was intended as so). There is also that potential (maybe not with the same gravity) in RPGS.



For RPGS to be art, I'd include the following elements as "potentials" for changing the category from "game" to "art"... a deep emotional involvement, a satirical or otherwise politcal representation (game of thrones on TV might be art), exploration of psychology through character, to such a degree that something profound is explored or maybe learned. There are surely other elements, but that's off the top of my head.



In the end, and as I said at the beginning...no medium is itself art.

Art is something that people produce using one or more mediums. RPGS and video games are mediums. That's all you need to know.

 

[Grumpy RPG Reviews]

Art is something that people produce using one or more mediums. RPGS and video games are mediums. That's all you need to know.

This speaks to intent and to success or failure. It is unlikely someone painting a house intends to create art. Someone doing a mural across a church ceiling probably does intend to create art, though success is a different matter.

Some TT RPG objects are not intended to qualify as art, some arguably are intended to be art - though success is still a different matter.

So, I am asking the gamers and game fans to name TT RPG product which they feel qualify as art.

I don't want to taint the results at this point by naming examples.

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

The primary purpose of art is to communicate some message between artist and audience.

The primary purpose of video games is - to play a game.

 

[Walking Dad]

...

...beer and pretzels is usually meant to be "a fun, nonserious game". I'd categorize that style as "not art...but a fun game likely".

...

Has it to be serious, to be art? Is comedy an art form? I won't exclude one gamestyle. I saw enough storytelling to say it is maybe art in the sense of an ape drawing pictures is as much art as the Mona Lisa.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

[MENTION=59043]Walking Dad[/MENTION] that's a good point. No, it needn't be serious to be art...but it needs to be evocative.

If a beer and pretzles game makes you think or makes you feel (preferably an emotion with some complexity or depth), then, sure, that could be art as well.

And, yes, storytelling games can also utterly fail at being art (whether intended to be art or not). Of course...just like any medium.