Cackling Manaically at the 13 Aug Legends and Lore

[tlantl]

I already hate at-will spell casting, I am certainly not going to be well pleased with some ill disguised per encounter spell casting scheme.

I'm more inclined to like reducing the amount of magic a caster can muster during a day not more.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

No need to edition war.

I still think it comes down to how magic works.
My trouble with it being possible to memorise a spell in five minutes is that it's not restrictive enough to prevent anyone doing it. See: minor spells - not just spellcasters get them because they are trivial.

 

[variant]

No need to edition war.

I still think it comes down to how magic works.
My trouble with it being possible to memorise a spell in five minutes is that it's not restrictive enough to prevent anyone doing it. See: minor spells - not just spellcasters get them because they are trivial.

The difficulty of the spell is based on its level, after all. Why is random level 3 spell so much easier to memorize and cast than the rest of the level 3 spells? Just because it is deemed arbitrarily weaker than the other level 3 spells? If it is weaker than other level 3 spells, maybe it shouldn't be a level 3 spell or increased in power so it is a useful level 3 spell.

 

[KidSnide]

The way in which the Wizard uses magic says a lot about the nature of magic in the game. It doesn't have to be the only kind of magic, but I think most people agree that the most powerful, the most game-changing and reality-warping spells end up in the hand of the mage. Preparing spells daily leads to a Wizard that justifies his intelligence score - he has to have a powerful mind to contain these spells, and it takes careful thought to prepare them.

If you removed "preparing spells daily" and "careful though to prepare" I would completely agree with you.

How a wizard uses magic does say a lot about the nature of magic in the game. Personally, I think it makes sense that some magic is so draining that a wizard can't do it repeatedly, but the Vancian fiction sounds like total nonsense to my ears. Of course, I think it should be part of D&D (for tradition), but I also want to play wizards without it. Any decent option that provides a less Vancian way to play a wizard sounds like a good idea in my book.

-KS

 

[Neonchameleon]

Because a spell component of the spell is the spell itself. That is why spell scrolls can only be used once. It's apart of the lore of D&D, always has been until 4e ****** it up.

1: I think you're using AD&D not 3e lore there. But like so much of 3.0 it changed the lore in a plausibly deniable manner.

2: You're missing the point. Why can't you have small spells that only take five minutes to prepare? And that don't create quite so big holes in the caster's brain? This isn't about spells not erasing themselves. It's about small spells being easy to re-prepare.

 

[Teataine]

To be honest, in actual Vance stories, memorisation takes but a moment. Like, open a book, read a spell, it's in your head.

Wizards memorize spells when they go out (adventuring or whatever) because lugging your whole library of tomes around is hard and burdensome. They only memorize things they know they will need in a crucial moment, something to release instantly from your brain when the going gets tough.

Otherwise they rely on bound demons, cantrips, rituals and other solutions.

Seriously, memorizing a spell in the middle of the day during a short rest is in no way against the spirit of "vancian". In fact I would suggest that it's entirely vancian.

Wizards in D&D memorize spells because you can't pull out a tome and start reading during a fight. But once that fight is over you can sit down and put new spells in your head no problem.

If anything there should perhaps be a limit to how many spells can be memorized over the course of the day.

 

[Underman]

Someone mentioned a system that had Simple, Complex and Exotic spells IIRC. Complex spells could require a day's rest, and Simple spells need less.

At-will spells might be Very Simple spell runes and you can juggle a number of these simple spell runes around in your mind's eye at a time.

 

[variant]

1: I think you're using AD&D not 3e lore there. But like so much of 3.0 it changed the lore in a plausibly deniable manner.

2: You're missing the point. Why can't you have small spells that only take five minutes to prepare? And that don't create quite so big holes in the caster's brain? This isn't about spells not erasing themselves. It's about small spells being easy to re-prepare.

1. 3e never gave any real lore behind it, but it also didn't rip up the foundation either.

2. Powers of spells is determined by level. A level 3 spell is a level 3 spell. There is no continuity when one of those level 3 spells for some reason can be obtained simply by taking a short break while others cannot. Plus, a level 3 spell takes no more rest to obtain than a level 9 spell. Just as it takes no less time for a level 20 wizard to regain a single level 3 spell he used than if he used his entire spell repertoire.

Someone mentioned a system that had Simple, Complex and Exotic spells IIRC. Complex spells could require a day's rest, and Simple spells need less.

At-will spells might be Very Simple spell runes and you can juggle a number of these simple spell runes around in your mind's eye at a time.

There's already levels of complexity in spells, they are called level 1 through 9.

 

[Mallus]

I've got no problem with a class of spells that can be recovered more quickly. It adds a little complexity, but that's the only downside I can see. Per encounter/short rest spells seem closer to a broader range of D&D's source fiction, making them better in terms of genre emulation.

Then again, I was never a fan of strict/limited to Vancian spell casting, outside of the Dying Earth stories, that is.

 

[triqui]

The difficulty of the spell is based on its level, after all. Why is random level 3 spell so much easier to memorize and cast than the rest of the level 3 spells? Just because it is deemed arbitrarily weaker than the other level 3 spells? If it is weaker than other level 3 spells, maybe it shouldn't be a level 3 spell or increased in power so it is a useful level 3 spell.

Good suggestion!. Make all spells that aren't your max level, to be encounter spells. So a 5th level wizard casts fireball 1xday, but Burning Hands 1x encounter, becouse he is able to memorize it again in short time (the spell itself is not taxing at all, I think you said)

I'm going to suggest this in the next playtest summary.