modify cleric domain

[Valetudo]

Im thinking maybe cleric domain spells should be once a day, instead of going in their spell list(like 3rd did it). What do you think?

 

[The Shadow]

Im thinking maybe cleric domain spells should be once a day, instead of going in their spell list(like 3rd did it). What do you think?

I disagree, for two reasons.

First, because it would complicate the cleric's life unduly. He could cast all of his spells spontaneously... except his domain spells, which are 1/day.

Second, because it would dilute the effect of the domain, when I'd like to see it strengthened.

Me, I'd rather go closer to the 2e spheres route - where your spell list is tailored to the domains of your deity.

 

[Li Shenron]

Second, because it would dilute the effect of the domain, when I'd like to see it strengthened.

I'm with this...

I'm fine with 3e clerics, but I've always wished for clerics of the same deity to be more similar and those of different deities to be more different.

5e can go into this direction if e.g.:

- a deity has one domain only, all her clerics share it
- domain powers include something to use actively, not just a flat bonus
- some domains affect basic class features (proficiencies, attacks or even hit dice)
- the generic clerical spell list is small
- domain spells are usable as many times you want (up to your max daily of course)

I guess the first point wouldn't be that popular tho.

 

[The Shadow]

I'm fine with 3e clerics, but I've always wished for clerics of the same deity to be more similar and those of different deities to be more different.

I hear you, but there's also a lot of potential for multi-domain deities. See, the clerics with different domains can form different orders, and have all sorts of interesting rivalry, infighting, demarcation of powers, etc. Trust me, this can be a lot of fun and has endless potential for worldbuilding.

I mean, take Zeus as a simple example. He might have domains of Storm, Rulership, and Omen.

The Omen clerics run his oracle at Dodona, and are formally considered to outrank the others; but they're kind of expected to be unworldly and not interfere very much. There's not that many of them.

The Rulership clerics are advisors to the upper classes and wield the real power. They tend to be upper-crust themselves and only the mavericks among them stoop to adventuring.

The Storm clerics are the loose cannons, the ones that embarrass the others. They cut loose with lightning and have a grand old time. They tend to get sent on long errands that will get them out of people's hair. They're the oldest of the orders, and the ones that come to mind first when the common folk think of 'clerics of Zeus'. Most people tend to regard the Rulership guys as much more reliable, but these guys as much more interesting (though not guys you'd want your daughter to marry). While the Omen guys are just spooky.

See what I mean?

So yes, I'd like to see clerics with spontaneous casting from prepared spells as present, but with spell lists built up by domain - with, as you say, a small generic list. So all Zeus clerics get access to Omen, Rulership, and Storm spells, they just have their domain spells auto-prepared and get cool domain abilities they can use X times per day, etc.

 

[jrowland]

So yes, I'd like to see clerics with spontaneous casting from prepared spells as present, but with spell lists built up by domain - with, as you say, a small generic list. So all Zeus clerics get access to Omen, Rulership, and Storm spells, they just have their domain spells auto-prepared and get cool domain abilities they can use X times per day, etc.

I would make a cleric choose
1) A deity
2) Choose one of the Domains associated with Deity
The Cleric would then
1) Able to cast spells from any domain associated with the deity as well as the generic spell list
2) Get cool domain abilities from the single chosen domain (tied to channel divinity?)
3) Get a bonus for using spells from the chosen domain

 

[Dausuul]

Im thinking maybe cleric domain spells should be once a day, instead of going in their spell list(like 3rd did it). What do you think?

What for?

 

[The Shadow]

I would make a cleric choose
1) A deity
2) Choose one of the Domains associated with Deity
The Cleric would then
1) Able to cast spells from any domain associated with the deity as well as the generic spell list
2) Get cool domain abilities from the single chosen domain (tied to channel divinity?)
3) Get a bonus for using spells from the chosen domain

I think we're pretty much in agreement. I didn't mention a bonus to the domain spells, but I could certainly get on board with it. And yes, the domain abilities would be a natural for Channel Divinity, at least some of the time.

Returning to the Zeus example,

The Omen clerics can Channel Divinity to ask the GM a single Yes/No question. The GM can refuse to answer, but in that case the Channel Divinity use is not wasted. (Though the action is.)

The Rulership clerics can Channel Divinity to gain advantage on social skill checks for the next... minute? Round? Or maybe grants advantage to people he's directing in a given task?

The Storm clerics can Channel Divinity to call down a divine thunderbolt, baby! Yeah!

 

[jsaving]

Im thinking maybe cleric domain spells should be once a day, instead of going in their spell list(like 3rd did it). What do you think?

Things really have changed on these boards -- seven posts so far with nary a mention that the OP's views on domains may be more in sync with 3e than he realizes.

My 3e cleric with the water and trickery domains surely wishes time stop and horrid wilting had gone onto his spell list! But in fact, 3e clerics receive only one domain slot per level into which those spells can be memorized. If a domain spell isn't on the standard cleric spell list, he can't cast it from his normal slots, which isn't so different from the OP's 1/day idea.

 

[The Shadow]

Things really have changed on these boards -- seven posts so far with nary a mention that the OP's views on domains may be more in sync with 3e than he realizes.

Oh, I noticed it. I just disagree. I'd like to see domains be much more defining of a cleric than they were in 3e.

Is Horrid Wilting really so overpowered compared to, say, Implosion?

Time Stop... well, it's hard to imagine a version of that spell that wouldn't be horribly broken. But it's not like you're ever going to have all that many top-level slots.

 

[Valetudo]

I wouldnt mind seeing clerics chose all their spells by domain, but I dont think wizards is going in that direction with them. So far cleric are subpar melee and subpar casters other than as healers. While I dont want them as strong and overpowered like 3rd, I think at this point they are lagging behind the other classes.