Crazy Jerome
First Post
Timely topic. I've been thinking on this for the last week, and I think I have a new way to frame the problem, even if I don't have an answer to it:
We've been misconstruing the essential characteristics that define the rogue. Instead of skill money or trickster or stabber or thief, rogues are characters that swing back and forth between "gambler" and "plotter".
That is, any adventurer can be a risk taker or a careful planner, or even vary a bit between the two depending upon situations, but rogues are practically defined as "more swings back and forth, more extreme swings, one extreme cycles into the other and back again".
Take the 1E thief, for example. What is a backstab? It's the rogue "plotting" very carefully, maybe even over several rounds, for the big "gamble" payoff of doing a lot of damage all at once. The 3E and 4E sneak attack mechanic tries to fix the balance issues in the backstab by making it more reliable, but while fun in a "swashbuckling" style, that particular fix works counter to the essense of the rogue. I've noticed this in our Next playtest rogues by comparison. The effect is still a bit too reliable and repeatable (hide this round to strike next round), but they really enjoy that whole bit of planning for the big score.
Then what about scouting and sneaking? Same deal. They work best when the rogue is needing to be careful because the risk/reward is stronger than normal. Sneak up on the orcs, then maybe the party can ambush them. Get spotted, the orcs will get to beat on the rogue separated from his friends. I've seen this work well and not so well in the playtest. If I consciously put the rogue into a situation where they have some information, but can get more by getting closer, this dynamic works better. That is, you need decision points so the rogue can decide how big a gamble he wants to take.
There are some possible analogs with climbing, using devices, picking locks, checking for traps, bluffing, etc, some more obvious than others. I think the rogue's abilities should reinforce this plotting/gambling dichotomy. Skill mastery should work on the same principle. When a rogue bluffs, he can set up the bluff for a potentially bigger payoff, but runs more risk when it fails.
The exact mechanics to pull that off are tricky. Like I said, I don't have the answers. I do intuit that every rogue should always have at least some abilities that are gambling oriented, some that are plotting oriented, and a good mix that are both (such as a sneak attack that can't work without planning). Then ideally the choices for later abilities would also include a mix, such that a rogue makes subtle shifts to the playstyle towards more gambling or more plotting by those picks. The flavor of these picks on other questions can be all over the place. You can have "trickster" flavored abilities that cater to plotting, gambing, or the mix.
We've been misconstruing the essential characteristics that define the rogue. Instead of skill money or trickster or stabber or thief, rogues are characters that swing back and forth between "gambler" and "plotter".
That is, any adventurer can be a risk taker or a careful planner, or even vary a bit between the two depending upon situations, but rogues are practically defined as "more swings back and forth, more extreme swings, one extreme cycles into the other and back again".
Take the 1E thief, for example. What is a backstab? It's the rogue "plotting" very carefully, maybe even over several rounds, for the big "gamble" payoff of doing a lot of damage all at once. The 3E and 4E sneak attack mechanic tries to fix the balance issues in the backstab by making it more reliable, but while fun in a "swashbuckling" style, that particular fix works counter to the essense of the rogue. I've noticed this in our Next playtest rogues by comparison. The effect is still a bit too reliable and repeatable (hide this round to strike next round), but they really enjoy that whole bit of planning for the big score.
Then what about scouting and sneaking? Same deal. They work best when the rogue is needing to be careful because the risk/reward is stronger than normal. Sneak up on the orcs, then maybe the party can ambush them. Get spotted, the orcs will get to beat on the rogue separated from his friends. I've seen this work well and not so well in the playtest. If I consciously put the rogue into a situation where they have some information, but can get more by getting closer, this dynamic works better. That is, you need decision points so the rogue can decide how big a gamble he wants to take.
There are some possible analogs with climbing, using devices, picking locks, checking for traps, bluffing, etc, some more obvious than others. I think the rogue's abilities should reinforce this plotting/gambling dichotomy. Skill mastery should work on the same principle. When a rogue bluffs, he can set up the bluff for a potentially bigger payoff, but runs more risk when it fails.
The exact mechanics to pull that off are tricky. Like I said, I don't have the answers. I do intuit that every rogue should always have at least some abilities that are gambling oriented, some that are plotting oriented, and a good mix that are both (such as a sneak attack that can't work without planning). Then ideally the choices for later abilities would also include a mix, such that a rogue makes subtle shifts to the playstyle towards more gambling or more plotting by those picks. The flavor of these picks on other questions can be all over the place. You can have "trickster" flavored abilities that cater to plotting, gambing, or the mix.
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