Would you allow this paladin in your game? (new fiction added 11/11/08)

[S'mon]

I did notice and comprehend the edit, but I was specifically responding to you saying that it doesn't matter why though I suppose I didn't do quite as good of a job as I would have liked. The why matters because it is through understanding the whys and other parts of a taboo that we can get to the root of whether it actually has a place in a given community both in fiction and in real life. That is relevant to the thread because we have to analyze whether the taboos actually pertain to alignment and whether taboos can shape alignment or the idea of what an alignment stands for, or whether the idea of alignments in and of themselves are worthwhile. The fact that for Cedric to exist as he does means his deity and the DM are behind him and view his activities as qualifying him to stay Lawful Good is obvious. But that's just the first layer of this and we all can discuss so much more.

Well we can't discuss the merits of any real-life taboos as that would come under politics, religion, or both.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Well we can't discuss the merits of any real-life taboos as that would come under politics, religion, or both.

It might depend on the specific taboo or other idiosyncrasy. For example, it's taboo and disrespectful in Japan to spit on the field in baseball but very much expected in the US. I'd say neither politics nor religion had a part in that.

Going into the ones concerning Cedric, we've seen a bit of chatter about the prostitution but it's mostly tiptoeing around because it's a sensitive issue. That's probably the biggest thing people have to think about with regards to him and I know leaving out any reference to his sexual activities would have more people think he could be a paladin.

 

[Aurondarklord]

@Aurondarklord , I mentioned to philosophers - Finnis and Dworkin - who don't begin their discussion of sex from the proprosition either that it is sacred or that it is evil.

I'm conscious of board rules, and don't want to break them. But here's another way in via a bit of a tangent. Karl Marx denies that labour is a commodity, but does not think that labour is either sacred or evil. Rather, this characteric of labour is (according to Marx) a consequence of the role of labour in expressing the fundamentally creative nature of both the individual human being, and the species as a whole.

Most people who think that sex is not a commodity are going to begin from some comparable area of reasoning (like Finnis, Marx's reasoning is influenced by natural law ideas; and like other radical feminists, Dworkin is influenced by Marxist theories of exploitation; so the resemblances here in patterns of argument are not coincidental).

As I said upthread, you may not agree with those who say that sex is not a commodity. I haven't indicated whether or not I agree with them (and don't intend to). But the position is a fairly standard one, and (as I also said upthread) I'm not surprised that the Book of Exalted Deeds tends to take it for granted.

First of all...you can't seriously claim that Andrea Dworkin didn't argue from the point of view that sex was evil, at least, heterosexual, penetrative intercourse. She wrote an entire book arguing that heterosexual intercourse was inherently coercive, invasive, and demeaning towards women, that it was a form of "occupation", and an expression of male contempt for women. I'd not be the first person to sum up her views as "all sex is rape".

Nor are Marx's views really relevant here, in the context of D&D, labor is certainly a commodity, or at least the game books presume the players will treat it as one, hence all the tables on how much different professions charge for their services per day and the value of crafted items.

And prostitution can be just another form of labor, I still haven't heard a real argument that is compatible with "sex is a normal and healthy activity" (IE, does not stem from "sex is evil" or "sex is sacred") that explains how sex has a special moral character that renders all prostitution inherently coercive and exploitative, regardless of circumstances.

 

[BigVanVader]

I voted no, because he's a Paladin. Every Paladin is the same, they make a big deal out of literally everything in the universe.

Hey Cedric, can you stab that Orc over there?

"Nothing matters in the end, we're all dying so I better get my pleasures where I can! I'm God's Lonely Man."

Yeah that's great Cedric. Hey, turn the cart around, let's just go hire that fighter that was eating his toenails. I'll bet he'll shut up and stab Orcs.

 

[Sadras]

Why would you necro a 2-year old thread? No other topics since then were interesting enough?

 

[was]

Why would you necro a 2-year old thread? No other topics since then were interesting enough?

People overly worried about their post count I would guess.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Why would you necro a 2-year old thread? No other topics since then were interesting enough?

The OP is Jan '05, so I'd count it as a 9 year 10 month necro, which very nearly makes it epic. It's easy to do this by accident with the "related thread" links at the bottom of threads. I mostly don't mind necros, but I'd love it if they were prominently flagged as such so I don't accidentally do quote replies where people have to remember what they were thinking a decade ago to respond.

 

[BigVanVader]

The OP is Jan '05, so I'd count it as a 9 year 10 month necro, which very nearly makes it epic. It's easy to do this by accident with the "related thread" links at the bottom of threads.

It's also easy to do if you've been reading 98 pages and completely forget that there's been significant time passed between each comment and post.

 

[jrowland]

Maybe [MENTION=198]shilsen[/MENTION] will hear the necro summons and regale us with tales of Sir Cedric's adventures.