beginning a new campaign, need help with balence and suggestions!

[Naoki00_]

Hello everyone, it's been a while since I was last here, but I need some input on the idea's I've got going for a new campaign in the works for my group, and since it's something I haven't done in a good while either some advice or ideas pitch would be incredibly nice!

Alright so the ground work is a moderately high level campaign set in a fantasy style age of piracy, inspired by the stormwrack book of which i no longer have do to an incident involving my cat and a glass of soda, The main idea is also somewhat inspired by the Pirates of the Caribbean movie in that the Government and pirates are in conflict, with them both wanting the same things in many cases (wealth, artifacts, prestige, etc). The plot is that the party members, whom are all seasoned and well experienced men and women at sea or in combat, hear through various means that one of the most legendary pirates is building a new crew to seek out a weapon of lore that could be capable of ending the conflict once and for all. one of the party is a double agent working for the state and is likely going to be intent on killing the pirate lord or stealing the weapon if possible and I want them to have navel fights with other pirates and government assaults, treasure searching and a heft bit of roleplay with getting to know the crew and better learning about the world in which this all happens in, and the weapon is likely going to be a key involved in the plots of a long caged evil deity.

All of that is fine and good, but I have little to no idea what level to put the party at and what not to allow ans what to green light and I'm also a little confused on the wording of one of the classes that the main pirate lord uses, so I'll list what they are, and based on that what do you guys think the party's level should be based on the idea that I want her to be scary as hell to them, she will likely rarely participate in combat unless it's on the ship itself and even than she wouldn't use her full range of power unless it was absolutely needed, wanting her tricks to be secret, also if you want to know anything I left out I can provide that easily, but I'm just not sure what all is needed to know how to decide the party's stuff.

Vrilisa Laorves, CN Female Psionic variant Vampire lord
Psion/1, fatespinner/5, Dread Pirate/10, Thrallherd/9
Str- 22, dex- 24, con- 20 (unliving temp), int- 32, wis- 28, cha- 32
powers know- 15, max power level- 5, 72 power points
Equipment- "Aegis of the Sea lord" +10 legendary leather armor SR 19 and heavy fort, "Calypso" +14 Great cutlass of anarchic power, deals 2d4 neg levels on hit to any living creature opposing her while standing on her ship.
AC- 50, 39 flat, 28 touch(10 + 12 armor, 7 dex, 6 nat, 11 deflection from getting int to deflect)


Alright so my first real question is about the thrallherd. I know I get a lv 17 thrall, but do you get ALL the listed numbers of followers or is it that you can have one or the other? because thats obviously a pretty important detail.

 

[delericho]

All of that is fine and good, but I have little to no idea what level to put the party at

How do you view the PCs?

If you see them as being a cut above the norm, but only just, start the campaign at 1st level.

If you see the characters as being recognisably human, but being inhumanly lucky or skilled, start the campaign at 6th level. (IMO, this is the level to use if going for that "Pirates of the Caribbean" feel.)

If you see the characters as veritable demigods, the greatest and most powerful mortal humans in existance, start the campaign at 13th level. But only do this if you're sure that's what you want, and are willing to do a lot of work - 3.5e really starts to break down after about 10th level, and definitely reaches a point where it's more effort than it's worth.

and what not to allow ans what to green light

I'm very much of the opinion that "less is more". So, I would recommend sticking with Core Rules only unless there is something specific you want to include. (Although, given your example below I would also allow the Expanded Psionics Handbook.)

Vrilisa Laorves, CN Female Psionic variant Vampire lord
Psion/1, fatespinner/5, Dread Pirate/10, Thrallherd/9

I'm not very familiar with either the Fatespinner or Thrallherd classes. However, I would tend to caution against using such a high-level antagonist. Because eventually you'll want your PCs to face off against her, which means they'll need to be similarly high level. And of course, that takes time, and runs the risk that the campaign will collapse before then.

Basically, I'd rather not keep my cool end-boss NPC waiting in the wings for all that time. I'd rather err in favour of bringing her on-stage early.

 

[Naoki00_]

How do you view the PCs?

If you see them as being a cut above the norm, but only just, start the campaign at 1st level.

If you see the characters as being recognisably human, but being inhumanly lucky or skilled, start the campaign at 6th level. (IMO, this is the level to use if going for that "Pirates of the Caribbean" feel.)

If you see the characters as veritable demigods, the greatest and most powerful mortal humans in existance, start the campaign at 13th level. But only do this if you're sure that's what you want, and are willing to do a lot of work - 3.5e really starts to break down after about 10th level, and definitely reaches a point where it's more effort than it's worth.



I'm very much of the opinion that "less is more". So, I would recommend sticking with Core Rules only unless there is something specific you want to include. (Although, given your example below I would also allow the Expanded Psionics Handbook.)



I'm not very familiar with either the Fatespinner or Thrallherd classes. However, I would tend to caution against using such a high-level antagonist. Because eventually you'll want your PCs to face off against her, which means they'll need to be similarly high level. And of course, that takes time, and runs the risk that the campaign will collapse before then.

Basically, I'd rather not keep my cool end-boss NPC waiting in the wings for all that time. I'd rather err in favour of bringing her on-stage early.

Hmm, well i see them as highly experienced, being some of the best of the best even if a little unsung about it and having not as much prestige, the ones everyone who knows them knows are awesome, but really aren't worldly known besides maybe one or too..so going by that I'd say maybe 8th to 10th level as most other pirate lords will be around 12 or 14, as for the less is more approach I can get behind that idea, might just include then psionics, a book on magic since it is rather important, the core and stormwrack if they have it.

As for Vrilisa she's not really so much the "antagonist" as much as someone everyone THINKS is the bad guy, she's a several thousand year old vampire lord and the oldest of all pirates how could she be a good guy after all, but in reality she's one of the last honorable pirates out there and is intent on finding the weapon more because she'd like to destroy it and keep the iron fisted government from getting it, and the PC's would find this out along the long trips at sea and the adventures. If they really go at it they probably would end up fighting her in the end or I might have her be "evil all along" if that makes the plot better, but for now her high level and power is more a display of age and skill then "you'll be fighting this" since they won't KNOW what her level is

 

[Dozen]

I'm not very familiar with either the Fatespinner or Thrallherd classes.

With the Fatespinner I'm not either, but the Thrallherd... brrr. Bad memories. Too strong for comfort. The OP's players are in for a challenge.

... but I have little to no idea what level to put the party at and what not to allow ans what to green light...

As Delericho said, when in doubt, it's better to have less material to work with. Still, since they are up against a Thrallherd Vampire(again, brrr), you'll need at least three splashbooks the players can use to counter psionics and stay on par with the main (possibly) villain. EPH, Heroes of Horror and the Complete series are all relatively safe picks (Complete Scoundrel is a must have, it has good trickster flavor and a variety of ways to resist mind control). If you can handle the milk and honey, go for Cityscape, the Compendiums(Dragon, Spell, Magic Item) and the Book of Exalted Deeds in case it fits the campaign's pirate theme somehow(Be careful though, while nothing is broken per se, there is some very strong stuff in those that could mess with your expectations in the long run). Stay far, far away from the Tomes. Lastly, for third party material, I recommend Hyperconscious.

 

[Naoki00_]

Well since it seems like not too many may have heard of them I'll post links to the fatespinner and thrallherd!

http://dndtools.eu/classes/fatespinner/

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm

note on the fatespinner, she qualifies for it based simply on it being more of a gifted class, part of her storyline involves her being able to control probability and chance

 

[Grogg of the North]

Something you and your players may want to keep in mind is that capturing a ship intact is going to be worth a lot of money. Just the basic ships in the PHB are worth up to 30,000 GP. So before your players start trying to sink everything you may want to suggest that the crown is willing to pay for boats.

Also, just be careful with a skill tax on your players. If you're going for a golden age of piracy, as a player that tells me that I need, at the least, several ranks in swim and possibly profession (sailor). Otherwise you'll wind up with something like this:

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1212

 

[Dozen]

Well since it seems like not too many may have heard of them I'll post links to the fatespinner and thrallherd!

Oh no, you're misunderstanding us! When we say we're familiar with a class, we mean we playtested it - so we can give advise based on experience, not deduction. We have no trouble googling them, either

Alright so my first real question is about the thrallherd. I know I get a lv 17 thrall, but do you get ALL the listed numbers of followers or is it that you can have one or the other? because thats obviously a pretty important detail.

Ah, sorry, missed that one(maybe that's why you thought we don't know where it is?). You get both of them.

Also, Grogg's post gave me an idea! As a pirate, you don't have to rob a ship's cargo - you can just capture the sailors and take the ship itself! And make no mistake, being a sailor from that era sucked spectacularly, much worse than being a pirate or privateer. Most companies didn't give jacksh*t about their workforce, who died by the dozens on every longer trip. The work conditions of "honest sailors" were so bad that they rather kidnapped people who were careless enough to walk alone around and about the docks(it's where the word 'shanghaiing' comes from) instead of hiring them, and since the captain served the company willingly, it's no suprise his crew didn't go Stockholm over him. There would be plenty of people willing to join the players if the party can promise to keep them well. Soon, they might have their own armada to face the lords'!

 

[GMMichael]

Hello everyone, it's been a while since I was last here, but I need some input on the idea's I've got going for a new campaign in the works for my group, and since it's something I haven't done in a good while either some advice or ideas pitch would be incredibly nice!

Alright so the ground work is a moderately high level campaign set in a fantasy style age of piracy, inspired by the stormwrack book of which i no longer have do to an incident involving my cat and a glass of soda,
All of that is fine and good, but I have little to no idea what level to put the party at and what not to allow ans what to green light and I'm also a little confused on the wording of one of the classes that the main pirate lord uses, so I'll list what they are, and based on that what do you guys think the party's level should be based on the idea that I want her to be scary as hell to them,

Alright so my first real question is about the thrallherd. I know I get a lv 17 thrall, but do you get ALL the listed numbers of followers or is it that you can have one or the other? because thats obviously a pretty important detail.

1) Stormwrack's a great book. I'm sorry for your loss.

2) Choosing a starting level for your party is as easy as determining what spells or class features you DON'T want them to have. Here's a quick list:
Level--Features
4------Ki strike
5------Fly, Dispel Magic, Wild Shape
7------Polymorph
9------Raise Dead, Teleport
13-----Plane Shift, Limited Wish

3) I have zero experience with the Thrallherd, but if your PCs complain that she wouldn't have so many followers, just say she has the Leadership feat too.

 

[Naoki00_]

So far this is all some really nice input! also now that it's sort of been answered I might have wanted to be a little more clear on my thrallherd question- I know that you get both the Thrall and the followers, BUT, do you get all the followers listed? like 100+ lv1s AND so many lv2s and so forth, or is it you can have this many lv1s OR so many others? also it actually states on the class that the thrallherd ability overrides and replaces Leadership, and if she had the feat, loses it because of it I think even.

Also to DMMike- thanks for the list suggestion, though I'm not really worried about any of THOSE things even being a problem as in our group we typically dislike the whole 'super-magic' thing, as it just breaks the fun and makes things much too easy especially when we have the idea of "if wizards can just fly all the time, why are we on ships...or why do any of us not use magic?" heh. Our wizards tend to choose spells that make sense in story and character, the only way any would pick fly is if they were a wind mage, polymorph?- shapeshifter specialist and similar which really limits their choices of spells which really is fine for our group- role play far over roll play and all that.

 

[Dozen]

I might have wanted to be a little more clear on my thrallherd question- I know that you get both the Thrall and the followers, BUT, do you get all the followers listed? like 100+ lv1s AND so many lv2s and so forth, or is it you can have this many lv1s OR so many others? also it actually states on the class that the thrallherd ability overrides and replaces Leadership, and if she had the feat, loses it because of it I think even.

You get every single believer listed. Every first, second, third, etc. level believer is under the Thrallherd's command. And no, you can't use Leadership and the Thrallherd extraordinary at once; don't get broken up about it though, the Leadership feat is a terrible attempt to introduce follower mechanics anyway. I banned it from my games ages ago.