The practical impact of who's granting the cleric's spells is...what exactly?

[Alzrius]

So I've been reading the reprints 1E Core Rulebooks that I bought last Gen Con, and I noticed in the PHB the section about how the cleric's 1st- and 2nd-level spells are granted largely through faith alone, whereas the 3rd-, 4th-, and 5th-level spells are granted from servants of the cleric's deity, and 6th- and 7th-level spells are granted by the deity directly.

I initially thought that this meant that servants of the cleric's deity had to be imbued with the spells for a cleric, and then travel across the planes to appear before the cleric physically and grant the spells that way; likewise, for the highest-level spells, a cleric would then need to go to his god and be physically present before it to receive their spells. However, re-reading the section now makes me think that this is a mistake on my part (though still a cool idea for a house rule...albeit a stringent one).

Given, then, that a cleric's spells are still restored via prayers, with the major difference being the distant source of their spells, what's the practical impact of denoting the difference between what's granting various levels of cleric spells? To put it another way, why did Gary include that section at all?

The only thing I can come up with is that its an in-game reason for holding the cleric up to higher levels of scrutiny (regarding their personal conduct) as they gain levels. But that seems thin; one could presume that this would be true anyway, simply due to the nature of active deities policing how their clerics operate.

So what am I missing then? Is this just a way to keep tighter tabs on how higher-level clerics act? Or is there some other reason to denote who grants various levels of clerical spells?

 

[GX.Sigma]

So I've been reading the reprints 1E Core Rulebooks that I bought last Gen Con, and I noticed in the PHB the section about how the cleric's 1st- and 2nd-level spells are granted largely through faith alone, whereas the 3rd-, 4th-, and 5th-level spells are granted from servants of the cleric's deity, and 6th- and 7th-level spells are granted by the deity directly.

I initially thought that this meant that servants of the cleric's deity had to be imbued with the spells for a cleric, and then travel across the planes to appear before the cleric physically and grant the spells that way; likewise, for the highest-level spells, a cleric would then need to go to his god and be physically present before it to receive their spells. However, re-reading the section now makes me think that this is a mistake on my part (though still a cool idea for a house rule...albeit a stringent one).

Given, then, that a cleric's spells are still restored via prayers, with the major difference being the distant source of their spells, what's the practical impact of denoting the difference between what's granting various levels of cleric spells? To put it another way, why did Gary include that section at all?

The only thing I can come up with is that its an in-game reason for holding the cleric up to higher levels of scrutiny (regarding their personal conduct) as they gain levels. But that seems thin; one could presume that this would be true anyway, simply due to the nature of active deities policing how their clerics operate.

So what am I missing then? Is this just a way to keep tighter tabs on how higher-level clerics act? Or is there some other reason to denote who grants various levels of clerical spells?

1. Clarification. It would be weird if every priest in the world had a direct hotline to the gods. This makes it clear that they don't.
2. Progression. You start as a 1st-level nobody, and you end up having a close relationship with your deity.
3. Drama. What if you anger your deity? What if he decides he doesn't want you to have that sort of power? What if there's war among his proxies?
4. Possibilities. You can have cultists who only have access to lower level spells because their deity isn't powerful enough (or is not actually a deity; cf. demigods, archfiends, dead powers).
5. Planescape. On the Outer Planes, it matters a lot where your spells are coming from. I'm not sure how much of a thing this was back when he wrote 1e (and the rules in 2e were different), but there was stuff where players would hang out with their deities, so there would be a difference between "Greetings, my loyal follower," and "Who are you, puny mortal?"
6. Why not?

 

[Libramarian]

Gary's explanation is in the DMG, p.38-39.

It's mostly an in-game reason for holding higher level clerics to increased scrutiny.

 

[Alzrius]

Clarification. It would be weird if every priest in the world had a direct hotline to the gods. This makes it clear that they don't.

That's not how I read it. This isn't like calling your god on the phone. The process is still the same for 7th-level spells as it was for first: you pray and they come to you. It's just where they come from has changed. In fact, looking over the passage again, I'm not sure the cleric even necessarily knows the difference.

Progression. You start as a 1st-level nobody, and you end up having a close relationship with your deity.

See above, though. Just in terms of who's granting your spells, it doesn't seem that close. It's like the difference between having your newspaper delivered by the paperboy, and delivered by the mayor - all you know is that it's there when you wake up.

Drama. What if you anger your deity? What if he decides he doesn't want you to have that sort of power? What if there's war among his proxies?

Notwithstanding the "war among the proxies" thing, the whole issue of angering your deity is something I mentioned above; the 1E PHB seems to make it clear that the cleric is held to higher standards as he levels up...but wouldn't that be true anyway, regardless of who's granting his spells, since there's still an actual god and celestial retinue policing the mortal church (at least to some degree)?

Possibilities. You can have cultists who only have access to lower level spells because their deity isn't powerful enough (or is not actually a deity; cf. demigods, archfiends, dead powers).

True, but this speaks more to the related rule (which was, if I recall correctly, laid down in Deities & Demigods) about certain ranks of gods being able to grant certain levels of spells.

Planescape. On the Outer Planes, it matters a lot where your spells are coming from. I'm not sure how much of a thing this was back when he wrote 1e (and the rules in 2e were different), but there was stuff where players would hang out with their deities, so there would be a difference between "Greetings, my loyal follower," and "Who are you, puny mortal?"

This seems a bit beyond the 1E PHB, though.

Why not?

Well, I'm operating under the presumption that Gary had an (affirmative) reason for what he wrote - that there's a reason for the things in the PHB, rather than because he shrugged and asked "why not do X?"

 

[Herobizkit]

That's not how I read it. This isn't like calling your god on the phone. The process is still the same for 7th-level spells as it was for first: you pray and they come to you. It's just where they come from has changed. In fact, looking over the passage again, I'm not sure the cleric even necessarily knows the difference.

Actually, prayer is exactly like calling your God/dess on the phone.

Lower-level priests are "powered" by their faith alone - they need but believe to receive their low-level bessings.

Mid-level priests are gamechangers - low-level scrubs simply never get access to these abilities. When a priest starts being able to tap this power, the God/dess takes notice and sends Her divine servant to deliver the spells.

Highest-level priests are direct servants (sometimes, even avatars) of their deity and have the power to change the face of the world. The priest prays for his highest-level Resurrection (fr'ex) and his deity "double-checks" the priest's request to be sure that the priest isn't going to use the power foolishly or against the deity's direct interests.

In short, it IS an in-game justification for spell mechanics, but it's a great one.

 

[GSHamster]

It gives a structure for saints and angels. People (especially Catholics) often pray/ask for a specific saint or angel to intercede on their behalf, even though the saints/angels are not gods. And different saints and angels have different areas of responsibility.

Remember that though the original D&D pantheons were inspired or based on the older Norse/Roman/Celt mythologies, the clergy were based on those of medieval Christanity, because that was probably what everyone was familiar with. So original D&D clerics are a mixture of those two strands.

 

[DM_Wannabe]

I've heard of situations where a cleric begins to perform acts that are not in keeping with his/her alignment. Displeasing to their chosen god, the spells that come directly from the god become unavailable to the cleric while the lower level spells still work.

 

[Hussar]

Note that this does come up if you plane travel. For example, in Queen of the Demonweb pits and other dimensional modules, clerics cannot regain spells higher than 2nd level.

 

[delericho]

Oddly enough, that's about to be a plot point in my current campaign. In the next little while, the BBEG is going to complete a ritual* to suppress the ability of one of the deities to contact his followers. As a consequence of this, the clerics and paladins of that faith are going to lose access to their highest-level spells. But they'll retain both the faith-granted and servitor-granted spells.

(Fortunately, none of the PCs are spellcasters associated with this faith, so the impact will be indirect - it affects the balance of power in the world, but not the balance of the various characters. But it also gives the PCs a very interesting choice to make: the faith in question are nominally good guys, but they're certainly not entirely faultless, so the PCs might choose to reverse the ritual, they might choose not to do so, or they could even use their influence to change the nature of the connection, in some ways purifying the church in question.)

* There is, of course, a chance that the PCs might stop this. A very slim chance, but a chance nonetheless.

 

[DMSamuel]

Actually, prayer is exactly like calling your God/dess on the phone.

Lower-level priests are "powered" by their faith alone - they need but believe to receive their low-level bessings.

Mid-level priests are gamechangers - low-level scrubs simply never get access to these abilities. When a priest starts being able to tap this power, the God/dess takes notice and sends Her divine servant to deliver the spells.

Highest-level priests are direct servants (sometimes, even avatars) of their deity and have the power to change the face of the world. The priest prays for his highest-level Resurrection (fr'ex) and his deity "double-checks" the priest's request to be sure that the priest isn't going to use the power foolishly or against the deity's direct interests.

In short, it IS an in-game justification for spell mechanics, but it's a great one.

This is how I have always interpreted the how/why of divine spells and faith.