D&D 5E 2/18/13 L&L column

[Garthanos]

The default slider is set.. at "die red shirt die".. so we can feel guilty about fixing it and cheating the game.

Thing is in Arnesons original description he recommended players having 4HD starting out and Gygax himself houseruled starting at level 3 in 0e era.

Remember never name your character till after level 5... level 8 if you are silly enough to not have a Cleric.

 

[steeldragons]

So you havent been reading the play test material? that makes discussion harder. It was an attempt to mollify fans of 4e removing healing surges and using a poor replacement named after earlier editions hit dice but keeping next to none of their benefits.

Oh that. Yeah. I mean, I haven't been directly reading the material. I do not possess a copy of my own to be able to go see/comment on what/how exactly it was written. I've been following along with everything everyone here and the various WotC articles has had to say.

Yeh I hate disproportionate healing, its written in to the rules everywhere healing occurs every spell item or ability that heals.

Disporportionate healing is where a cure light wounds heals my character from unconcious to full health when I am low level but somehow at high levels barely causes a blip. Its where might mildly injured fighter takes more healing like many many potions or spells and my wizard takes next to none... Its where it takes more resources to heal the most healthy.

A pure proportionate healing system would be where health was primarily recovered as a percentage.

Right. Ok. So then, instead of spells, potions, whatever doing xdy hp of healing make it a percentage.

Cure Lights, Healing potions, short rest (if you want such things in your Basic game) or equivalent does 20%. Cure Serious, Extra-Healing potions, long rest (if you want such things in our Basic game) or equivalent does 50%. Heal or equivalent magic does 100%.

Done. Two lines. There's your house rule.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Translation: the game should passive-aggressively punish TwoSix for his preferred playstyle by taking away his character.


There are some games where careful, tactical play is required in order to survive combats. There are also games where you're expected to go in, guns (or spells) blazing, throwing caution to the wind. And of course many shades of gray in between, as well as other options. None of these styles is better than the others, just different preferences.

The issue we have is which one D&D is going for. With all their dials and options they claim to be able to support multiple styles, but I doubt it. A fairly average 1st level Wizard in Next can straight up die from an orc who rolls a natural 20, regardless of whether or not you choose to implement hit dice as a healing mechanic. Not some odd corner case exception, it's actually fairly likely. This firmly pushes Next towards the "cautious" end of the spectrum, at least at low levels. Contrast this with 4e, where a fairly average 1st level Wizard has 20 hp and cannot possibly die in a single hit from any other 1st level creature. This pushed 4e more into the "guns blazing" end of the spectrum.

Judging from these discussions, the fanbase is rather divided on the issue.

No one is trying to punish anybody. We all just want very different things from the game and it has people divided.

but this is an issue of the game's range. If you want characters to be more stable out of the gate, a simple suggestion in the book of starting at third level is an easy fix. But if you dont set 1st level with normal HP as the default it is much harder to adjust to get classic early level play.

 

[Sage Genesis]

Right. Ok. So then, instead of spells, potions, whatever doing xdy hp of healing make it a percentage.

Cure Lights, Healing potions, short rest (if you want such things in your Basic game) or equivalent does 20%. Cure Serious, Extra-Healing potions, long rest (if you want such things in our Basic game) or equivalent does 50%. Heal or equivalent magic does 100%.

Done. Two lines. There's your house rule.

Couple of things.

1. That's the 4e method. In my opinion it worked pretty well, but WotC must have access to some data we don't, because they seem fairly adamant against including such methods. That's what it looks like for me anyway.

2. Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you had actually read the material you would know that the houserule you propose is... well, garbage. Sorry. There are no less than 5 different Cure X Wounds spells (not counting Mass versions) and the Heal spell cures a flat 50 hp, clearly meaning it's not intended to fully cure high-level characters. It also ignores the fact that Clerics of the Lifebringer deity gain an increase in effectiveness with some of those spells which your house rule doesn't take into account. The issue has more aspects and is more complicated than you give it credit. I would strongly urge you to first read the rules and then tinker with them, not the other way around.

3. There are many people who don't like houserules. There are also people who don't want to go through the effort of needing to fix what shouldn't have been broken (in their opinions) to begin with. Suggesting that people can just houserule all problems away is overlooking this, and doesn't really address the issue.

 

[Sage Genesis]

No one is trying to punish anybody. We all just want very different things from the game and it has people divided.

but this is an issue of the game's range. If you want characters to be more stable out of the gate, a simple suggestion in the book of starting at third level is an easy fix. But if you dont set 1st level with normal HP as the default it is much harder to adjust to get classic early level play.

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying anybody here is out to punish someone. I'm saying the game would punish (as in: discourage) certain playstyles. Pretty big difference.

 

[Garthanos]

Cure Lights, Healing potions, short rest (if you want such things in your Basic game) or equivalent does 20%

compute 20 percent of a wizards die rolled lowest hit points for me...

 

[Bedrockgames]

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying anybody here is out to punish someone. I'm saying the game would punish (as in: discourage) certain playstyles. Pretty big difference.

Sure, but I find it just as punishing if the game deprives me of what i want as well. I do think they should try to make as many people happy as posible, and i think the easiest way is a simple and classic core with plenty of options to adjust for things like lethality, healing, etc. i just dont see te problem with asking someone who really wants things like healing surges or first leel characters that play like third level characters, to make use of a rule labeled "(optional)". Heck, i want a skill system in the core, but it really wont bother me if ineither need to make use of an optional rule or se the advanced book to play with them. It is easier to start simple and add these things in than it is to take them out.

 

[Garthanos]

2. Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you had actually read the material you would know that the houserule you propose is...

Well that is my fault I asked for it... not knowing he was under supported. But feeling that asking the question ought to demonstrate the issue is more complex (and point out something lost).

 

[Sage Genesis]

Sure, but I find it just as punishing if the game deprives me of what i want as well. I do think they should try to make as many people happy as posible, and i think the easiest way is a simple and classic core with plenty of options to adjust for things like lethality, healing, etc. i just dont see te problem with asking someone who really wants things like healing surges or first leel characters that play like third level characters, to make use of a rule labeled "(optional)". Heck, i want a skill system in the core, but it really wont bother me if ineither need to make use of an optional rule or se the advanced book to play with them. It is easier to start simple and add these things in than it is to take them out.

So you agree with me then?

 

[Garthanos]

I think starting simple != with a play experience that might as well be a different genre of game.