Pathfinder 1E So far not impressed with Pathfinder

[Starfox]

If you want awesome arcane summoning, look no further than the Summoner in Pathfinder. It is perhaps TOO awesome.

 

[ggeilman]

After allowing it for 3 months I threw the class out Starfox. Nice to find out though that it seems Complete Scoundrel was part of the source of this mess. I threw the book out of my house the day the player brought it in. 3.5 was a good game until WOTC broke it starting with PHB II. The other issue with 3.5 was the contradictions with the rules and if you dig you will find the passage that has the caster done casting at the end of his action. I had our legal expert look at it years ago and rule on it. Paizo even stated that they made changes to summoning to keep the druid from filling the battlefield with creatures.

 

[billd91]

I had our legal expert look at it years ago and rule on it.

Well, there's your problem. This isn't the law. It's not meant to withstand the zealous exegesis of the rules-lawyer. In my experience, there's nothing that warps the game as much as rules lawyering it.

 

[ggeilman]

No, but it is a game with rules that have built in contradictions, even in Pathfinder. This leads to constant arguing over the rules, especially from new players. Our solution was to form a rules committee of senoir members, one of which used to work for the JAG office in the Navy, to research rules questions and advise the dms. It is not perfect, but it lessens the arging at the table from the rules lawyers.

 

[SkidAce]

Well, there's your problem. This isn't the law. It's not meant to withstand the zealous exegesis of the rules-lawyer. In my experience, there's nothing that warps the game as much as rules lawyering it.

And I learn a new word today.

 

[ggeilman]

And I learn a new word today.

Had to look it up myself! We don't use them fancy two dollar words much here in Texas. Nor do we cotton much fer rules lawyers. I think our secretary would get a good laugh out of that one if I shared the post!

 

[TwoSix]

I'd agree with you there, [MENTION=2303]Starfox[/MENTION], except for the Malconvoker PrC, which is arcane, and turns your monster summoning up to eleven. But usually, every round in which a Wizard casts a spell that a Cleric could have cast, he's a sucker for that round. Coz being a Cleric is more awesome in every way unless you use the Wizard-only tricks.

Pedantic side note: Malconvoker supports both Arcane and Divine. Conjurer wizards are usually considered superior summoners to Clerics if they are using the Rapid Summoning variant from Unearthed Arcana. The Cleric requires use of the Rapid Spell feat to also be able to do standard action summonings.

 

[Empirate]

After allowing it for 3 months I threw the class out Starfox. Nice to find out though that it seems Complete Scoundrel was part of the source of this mess. I threw the book out of my house the day the player brought it in. 3.5 was a good game until WOTC broke it starting with PHB II. The other issue with 3.5 was the contradictions with the rules and if you dig you will find the passage that has the caster done casting at the end of his action. I had our legal expert look at it years ago and rule on it. Paizo even stated that they made changes to summoning to keep the druid from filling the battlefield with creatures.

Well, whatever your JAG man found, the rules in 3.5 and PF are the same where casting time for summon spells is concerned. "If you dig you will find the passage" isn't a very convincing argument. Maybe try digging it up yourself if you're so sure?

Also, PHBII and following did a lot to balance out party roles. Sure, some mechanical material got left behind (the Fighter and Monk class, except as dips, come to mind), but all in all, swinging sharp metal at foes became more enticing with e.g. the Duskblade. Or the Swordsage, oh my god, the Swordsage...

Complete Scoundrel, to pick the same example as you, is probably among the most well-balanced 3.5 books out there IMO. Complete Champion has some options that even I would dub cases of power creep (but there's always gonna be some chaff). but other than that, the later books really made 3.5 much, much more enjoyable to me.

Pedantic side note: Malconvoker supports both Arcane and Divine. Conjurer wizards are usually considered superior summoners to Clerics if they are using the Rapid Summoning variant from Unearthed Arcana. The Cleric requires use of the Rapid Spell feat to also be able to do standard action summonings.

Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Ahnehnois]

the later books really made 3.5 much, much more enjoyable to me.

Odd. By and large, the last run of books was mixed to poor from my perspective. Can't say I ever found much use for CS. To each his own I guess.

 

[Hussar]

I dunno. Tome of Magic was gold AFAIC. I loved the classes, even if they weren't terribly well balanced. But, loads and loads of flavour.