OotS 889

[JamesonCourage]

You're still making assumptions about the plot role (or lack thereof) of these last few strips that aren't warranted.

If you're responding to me, then yeah, I am making assumptions about it. And I feel they're warranted.

This is especially true given that after nearly 900 strips, Rich has yet to let us down in the ways people keep predicting.

I'm not going to attempt to read your mind about what "people keep predicting", but there's been many, many things over the years that I haven't really cared about, or didn't seem that important or felt like a complete sidetrack. I feel that way, now, about this illusion, based on those past experiences.

My guess is this illusion is a "stop people from progressing" trap, but not more than that. They 'defeated' it, and now get to move on, so it must be important, right? To me, not so much. If it ended up giving them insight into solving something further in the pyramid (other than like illusions), or it slowed the party down while they were being chased and caused them to be caught, etc., then I'd care more. But, like most traps, it being there doesn't make it important to me.

So, yeah, I'll make my assumption based on past experience. But, we'll see. It's not like I don't enjoy the strip, overall. I just saw this little arc (short in strips, long-ish in real time) as kinda pointless. I won't be surprised if it's more than what I predict, but I wouldn't put my money there, either.

 

[lin_fusan]

It showed some character growth on behalf of Elan. His greatest, deepest wish, and his realization that the real world doesn't work that way.

It has some small plot value (shows the strengths of the pyramid's illusions), has a little thematic value (this is what heroes are all about), and shows a lot of character value (Elan's decision/realization). That's not pointless.

 

[Grue]

It showed some character growth on behalf of Elan. His greatest, deepest wish, and his realization that the real world doesn't work that way.

It has some small plot value (shows the strengths of the pyramid's illusions), has a little thematic value (this is what heroes are all about), and shows a lot of character value (Elan's decision/realization). That's not pointless.

Oh I wouldn't say it's Elan growning ... he was already like this (his realization that the real world doesn't work that way). Except in his real world things follow a certain pattern ... he's the PC that does the heroically appropriate thing at the right dramatic moment because it makes a better story. Or rather he's the PC that facilitates the Great Fourth Wall Gamemaster in the Sky (The Narrative).

He wanted his parents to get back together but what snaps him out of the illusion is the fact it doesn't fit the story. Nale has no plan to screw things up at the dramatically appropriate time is his tip off.

On a related note, the author uses Elan frequently to 'hang a lantern' on a important plot point (the dumb blonde asking a question). Though in a way I suppose that makes Banjo Rich's avatar in the strip.

 

[JamesonCourage]

It showed some character growth on behalf of Elan. His greatest, deepest wish, and his realization that the real world doesn't work that way.

It has some small plot value (shows the strengths of the pyramid's illusions), has a little thematic value (this is what heroes are all about), and shows a lot of character value (Elan's decision/realization). That's not pointless.

I don't see it as character growth or anything, personally. It's basically the same character breaking the fourth wall again, to comment on the Plot. I don't think he learned anything he didn't know; what he already knew snapped him out of an illusion.

To that end, your take on "plot value (shows the strengths of the pyramid's illusions)" is something I don't find particularly compelling; they snapped out of it rather easily. Your take on "thematic value (this is what heroes are all about)" is undercut by their being nothing new (no revelation or raised stakes), in my opinion. And, lastly, your take on "shows a lot of character value (Elan's decision/realization)" isn't new, either, and thus doesn't add anything other than a momentary distraction from stuff that's actually going on (important stuff, like Belkar's mindset or a party member actually dying).

But, I'm not trying to deny you your take on things; I'm just saying why they don't ring true to me. I'm glad others really enjoyed this strip, but I didn't like it, personally.

 

[Lindeloef]

So you guys thing that the Linear Guild or V will end up in that illusion trap too?

 

[MarkB]

I think it is character growth for Elan. It's not that he didn't know his wishes were unrealistic - he did. But he was holding onto that dream anyway. Now he's realised that he has to let it go, and deal with his family as they actually are.

Letting go of one's dream is an important stage in any character's story.

 

[Rune]

I don't see it as character growth or anything, personally. It's basically the same character breaking the fourth wall again

I wonder if you and I read the same comic. In the one I read, Elan did not break the fourth wall at any point (even the last panel). What he did do see things from a wider view than most other characters tend to do. All still within the scope of the world he lives in, though.

Also, he grew up a bit in the process--realizing that the silly dreams he'd been holding onto are a hindrance counts as such!

 

[JamesonCourage]

I wonder if you and I read the same comic. In the one I read, Elan did not break the fourth wall at any point (even the last panel).

I mean in more of a 'meta' sense, where he knows how the Narrative is supposed to function (like the last panel). It's clearly not as pronounced as his past references, but the fact that Elan has the best grip on how things are supposed to be makes sense with him seeing through an illusion because the story is off. I mean, Roy is very intelligent, and he should have seen through things (like ignoring Elan's father's evil empire). But, no, it's Elan, since he has the best meta grip on the Narrative. I just meant that it's basically the same vein, to me.

What he did do see things from a wider view than most other characters tend to do. All still within the scope of the world he lives in, though.

I think if this were the case, then certain things would've bugged the other characters. Like Roy not working on the evil empire, for example. But, he doesn't even notice until Elan points it out. And to me, it's because Elan has traditionally had a better view outside of the world he lives in. If it was purely an inside view, I can only assume he'd be even more stuck than Roy, since he's sometimes very oblivious of stuff that's going on. Again, though, just an assumption, based on what I've read in the past.

Also, he grew up a bit in the process--realizing that the silly dreams he'd been holding onto are a hindrance counts as such!

I don't think he was ever going to really pursue this, so I don't really think it matters much, but we'll see. If this marks some sort of character turn for a harder Elan, then I'll be pretty happy about the illusion, and won't consider it a "pointless" sidetrack at all. We'll see, though. Rich has done a good job with character advancement and growth before, so there's potential for it, but based on the last panel, I'm not betting on it. It currently sounds more like a "we promised you illusions, so have an illusion" than "important character growth", but it is the joke panel, so I'm not going to condemn it yet.

At any rate, I'm just saying why it feels this way to me. Like I said, looks like most others have enjoyed it, and I'm glad.

 

[lin_fusan]

I see Elan using his primary strength (his knowledge of meta-fictional narrative) overcoming his primary weakness (his naiveté) as a classic example of character growth.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I see Elan using his primary strength (his knowledge of meta-fictional narrative) overcoming his primary weakness (his naiveté) as a classic example of character growth.

Cool.