Rewriting the d20 Modern Basic Classes

[Morrus]

OK, so I'm playing with the idea of attacking d20 Modern and "fixing" some of the common observations. Here's my wiki page here on EN World where I'm doing it in a very haphazard brainstormy sort of way. That's really just scratch paper where I'm jotting down ideas or notes. I'm also looking at Star Wars SAGA, Pathfinder, and other things for inspiration.

So this is one of my ideas for basic classes.

Design goal: classes must be broad/flexible to handle modern and future, by which which I mean 1970s cop shows as far as Star Trek/Star Wars in terms of Progress Levels, without being bland.

Eliminate the existing basic classes and create a set of role-oriented basic classes. Classes are broad enough to cover a variety of archetypes which will be focused with talent trees. These are just suggestions:

Class	Abilities	Hit Die	Skill Points	Notes	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Modern Examples	Future Examples
Warrior	STR, DEX	1d12	(3 + Int modifier) x4	Includes soldiers, martial artists, wrestlers, marines	Good	Good	Good	Bad	Buffy, B.A. Baracus, "Dutch" Schaeffer, Rocky Balboa	Flash Gordon
Engineer	INT	1d6	(9 + Int modifier) x4	Includes scientists, mechanics, medics, doctors	Bad	Bad	Good	Good	Topher, House, Walter Bishop	Scotty, Spock, McCoy, Gaius Baltar, The Doctor
Investigator	WIS, INT	1d8	(7 + Int modifier) x4	Includes cops, bounty hunters, burglars, spies, security, explorers	Avg	Bad	Good	Good	James Bond, Michael Knight, Indiana Jones, Sherlock, Scully & Mulder	Boba Fett, Judge Dredd, Michael Garibaldi
Leader	CHA, WIS	1d8	(7 + Int modifier) x4	Includes tacticians, facemen, con artists, sergeants, starship captains	Bad	Bad	Good	Good	Hannibal Smith, Face	Captain Kirk, Adama
Hotshot	DEX, CON	1d10	(5 + Int modifier) x4	Includes drivers, pilots, stuntmen, extreme sportsmen	Avg	Good	Good	Bad	Howling Mad Murdoch, the Hazzard boys, Maverick, Colt Seavers	Starbuck, Han Solo, Wedge Antilles

Every class gains a feat at every level.
Make a choice at every level; no dead levels.
20-level classes attractive enough to stay in.
Not worrying about magic or psi for the moment, but will at some point.

BAB Progressions: Good = 1/level, Avg = 1/2 levels, Bad = 1/3 levels.
Save Progressions: Good = 1/2 levels (plus 2 at 1st level), Bad = 1/3 levels.

Fractional advancement is expected and will be shown on the tables.

Talent trees focus the main classes. These are mainly borrowed straight from d20 Modern, with a couple of additions:

Warrior	Engineer	Investigator	Leader	Hotshot
Brawler Soldier Martial Artist Beserker Unbreakable	Researcher Mechanic Medic Scientist Hacker	Detective Infiltrater Explorer Tracker Thief	Charmer Fast-Talker Leadership Tactician/Strategist Empath	Need for Speed Dogfighter Stuntman Evasion Athlete

So a ninja is a Warrior/Investigator (martial artist and infiltrator talent trees). Indiana Jones is an Engineer/Investigator (researcher and explorer talent trees).

Any thoughts? Obvious omissions? Flaws? Major missing archtypes (not counting magic or psi)?

 

[Morrus]

My main issue with talent trees is that they're too similar to feats (or feat chains). I suppose that doesn't matter, but do they need a different name, other than being feat chains with class pre-reqs?

So I'm looking at the existing talent trees. As a lot of folks say, they an be a bit dull - bonuses and modifiers, especially, are dull. I'm trying to think of five-item trees in which all five items are interesting and add new options.

[Edit- so I made the one in the post below; it's not great. A bit dull and bonusey].

 

[Morrus]

Sample: Tactics/Strategy Talent Tree

Battle Readiness: You have trained to rapidly respond to hostile action, and your allies trust your commands. Any ally within 30' of you gains a +2 initiative bonus.

Sense Ambush: You know well the telltale signs of an ambush. Small things that don't seem right. Any time you would normally be surprised, you may make a WIS check (DC 15) to act normally.
Prereq: Battle Readiness

Coordination: You may designate one ally. If you both attack the same target (even if neither of you are adjacent to that target), the target counts as flanked.
Prereq: Battle Readiness

Brains Over Brawn: You are able to analyse an opponent's tactics and quickly determine the most efficient response. As a move action, you may designate one opponent. Against that opponent only, you may use your INT mod instead of STR or DEX when making attack rolls. You may change your designated opponent with a move action.

Battle Plan: You love it when a plan comes together. Before a battle, you may make an INT check (DC 15). I don't know what happens here.
Prereq: Battle Readiness, Coordination

Ambush: Before a battle, you may make an INT check (DC 15). If you succeed, you and your allies automatically gain a full surprise round.
Prereq: Battle Plan, Battle Readiness, Coordination

Delegation: You may allow your allies to use your action dice.
Prereq: Coordination, Battle Readiness

 

[Morrus]

Sample: Hacker Talent Tree

l33t: You are an expert computer operator. You gain +2 to all Computer Use checks. You may access the internet or other networked systems from any terminal, even if it is not designed for that task.

Backdoor: Each time you choose this talent, you may assign one pre-installed backdoor to the systems of a major organization. You do not need to make Computers checks to access that system and obtain information.
Prereq: l33t

Decryption: You are able to decode signals, codes, and ciphers with a DC 15 Computer Use check.
Prereq: l33t

Ghost in the Machine: When you access a system, you do not leave any trace of your presence.
Prereq: l33t

Backdoor Network: Your network of backdoors and access codes is so extensive that you no longer need to rely on your own personal list of backdoors. You now have a backdoor into any secure system you desire as long as you make a DC 15 Computer Use check.
Prereq: l33t, Backdoor x 3

Hacker Culture: You have a pseudonym which you use online. This pseudonym is recognised by other hackers and computer specialists, and earns you respect and admiration. You gain a +2 bonus to Persuade checks made against anybody with 6 or more ranks in Computers.
Prereq: l33t

 

[Armadillo]

Very nice. This is one of the better hacks/updates for d20M that I've seen. A couple of comments:

- I like your classes. One of the real problems with d20M was that the core classes were dull and not evocative of any genre concepts. I regularly saw players flip past the core classes to pick an advanced class and then plan their build from there. I also like that you moved away from the strict attribute link to classes (a nice idea that didn't work well in practice).

- Engineer/Investigator. Why are these separate classes? It seems like they could be combined and then divided into subclasses.

- Talent trees and feats. I liked talent trees. I didn't like that alternating picking talents and feats created odd problems with feat selection (take a prereq, wait two levels, then take the feat you want). True20 went the way of a feat every level with long lists of class-based feats. There are also problems with the existing d20M feats that were mostly solved in Star Wars SAGA (in particular, I remember an oddly long feat progression for vehicle operations (and no feat for submarines)). So, there could be a benefit of converting talents to feats, and it would give you a chance to correct and clean-up the existing feats.

- Multiclassing. You didn't get into this, but it was a real problem with the d20M core classes. In part, because a character would often need to take two different core classes in order to meet the prereqs for an advanced class. It sounds like you might be steering away from that problem (and I certainly hope that you do). Multiclassing also gave rise to the +0 BAB problem where a character could easily have 3+ classes at +0 BAB and be hopelessly behind in any combat (resulting in no fun for the player). The fractional BAB chart from Unearthed Arcana seemed to offer a solution for this, but it would be better to avoid the problem in the first place (and avoid having to help a player reconcile a +1/3 and +1/4 BAB).

Good luck!

 

[Morrus]

Yeah, I mentioned fractional BAB and save progressions. That's gotta be done.

Engineer/Investigator - I guess an argument could be made. I see Sherlock Holmes as very different to Scotty, though. Or a doctor as very different to cat burglar. But, yeah, it's arbitrary to an exxtent - you could argue that every talent tree there is its own class. Or that you could have one class and lots of talent trees.

I'm struggling conceptually a little bit as I find talent trees I come up with sharing names with skills. What determines if something should be a talent tree, a skill, or a feat? What's the difference between someone who has maxed out his medical skills and someone who has taken a medical talent tree?

 

[Morrus]

So what I'm considering is dropping the advanced classes completely. Five decent core classes that go from 1-20 plus some prestige classes (but the cores classes need to be attractive enough to stay in).

(Though there will be magic using classes later; just not concerned about them right now).

 

[Morrus]

Or, another approach. Archetypes like Pathfinder. Hmmm. An archetype and a talent tree are very similar ways of approaching the same thing; the difference is that the talent tree lets you pick and choose a bit more.

 

[dm4hire]

I always thought Modern should have used more of a class/profession approach like d20 Chtulhu used, players choosing to be either offensive or defensive or alternating between the two until they prestige their characters in to an advanced class.

 

[Morrus]

That's even more bland than the existing d20M basic classes!