That Penny Arcade Controversy

[D'karr]

Which I think is a pretty ballsy thing to do... stand up for your personal ethics, even if doing so causes yourself a bit of difficulty

Interestingly enough the same could be said of Mike's responses to this whole thing. Was he insensitive? Sure. But he stuck to his guns in the middle of a crapstorm. Whether right or wrong, he is now paying the consequences of his actions.

 

[Dannager]

But I think there's some clues:
did they tell the truth or speak accurately?
Did their reaction cause harm beyond stopping the bad thing they objected to?

Exactly. And, like I pointed out, I think the answers to those questions are, "No," and, "Unlikely, but they wish it had," respectively.

 

[Dannager]

Interestingly enough the same could be said of Mike's responses to this whole thing. Was he insensitive? Sure. But he stuck to his guns in the middle of a crapstorm. Whether right or wrong, he is now paying the consequences of his actions.

And because it's important to say, his guns weren't "I support rape," but rather, "I'm a comic artist, and your personal trauma or trigger doesn't mean that I need to restrict my own comedy, or that I need to apologize every time I draw something someone might find less sensitive than required."

As he's pointed out a number of times, it's ridiculous that this is what got people riled up, after years of jokes about murder, dismemberment, grievous bodily harm, penises, vaginas, and all other manner of crude or potentially offensive humor. The people choosing to be offended by this aren't offended because he drew insensitive comedy. They're being offended because he drew insensitive comedy about a personal pet cause of theirs.

 

[Cadence]

The people choosing to be offended by this aren't offended because he drew insensitive comedy. They're being offended because he drew insensitive comedy about a personal pet cause of theirs.

I was under the impression that a lot of the people offended by PA's conduct understood the original strip and had no problem with it. A few posts from those upset with PA even start by explaining that. Instead they claim to be upset with how PA responded to those who were offended by the original strip by mocking all those who are concerned about a "rape culture" (perhaps one where around 1 in 6 women are subject to attack and many are afraid to report it?), mocking those worried about trigger warnings, and making a shirt using the personification of rape as a standard to fight for free (consequence-less?) speech.

So, it seems odd to see discussions on how people treated PA unfairly about this that focus only on the original strip and ignore the later actions.

And because it's important to say, his guns weren't "I support rape," but rather, "I'm a comic artist, and your personal trauma or trigger doesn't mean that I need to restrict my own comedy, or that I need to apologize every time I draw something someone might find less sensitive than required."

Were his guns a bit closer to: "Anyone who's offended by my comedy deserves to be mocked, and if that catches a bunch of previously unoffended people in the cross-fire then they should just suck it up too"?

Following some of the arguments by other posters above, it seems reasonable to me that he just responded to those who over-reacted and accused him of falsely being insensitive and worse by over-reacting and actually being insensitive himself.

If fighting against over-reaction on-line is someone's pet cause... should at least some of their outrage land on PA too?

 

[Dannager]

I was under the impression that a lot of the people offended by PA's conduct understood the original strip and had no problem with it. A few posts from those upset with PA even start by explaining that. Instead they claim to be upset with how PA responded to those who were offended by the original strip by mocking all those who are concerned about a "rape culture" (perhaps one where around 1 in 6 women are subject to attack and many are afraid to report it?), mocking those worried about trigger warnings, and making a shirt using the personification of rape as a standard to fight for free (consequence-less?) speech.

I think they were well within their rights to respond as they did, given how they were being treated. It's telling that the only way people can build support for the idea that their reaction was uncalled for is by falsely characterizing the initial reaction to the comic as "reasonable", instead of the torrent of threatening or harassing tweets and emails that it was.

 

[D'karr]

a standard to fight for free (consequence-less?) speech.

See that's the problem. Free speech is not "consequence-less", and should not be assumed to be so.

PA routinely makes fun of a lot of things that people might find offensive. In this case PA's reaction to people that were, for good or ill, offended caused a bigger crapstorm. All of their actions have in one way or another led here. So their "free-speech" was obviously not consequence-less.

I have every "right" to say insensitive stuff. If I do so, there are some people that will be offended. It is obvious to see that it comes with the territory of saying insensitive stuff. I should know that I have to live with the consequences of those words, because "free-speech" always has consequences. There is a reason why in our country it is a right that is protected from intrusion/squelching by the government. Because there are times when "free-speech" will be insensitive or not agreeable to "the government". So our base "laws" prevent the government from creating laws that will prevent me from speaking out against them.

That still does not mean that my "words don't have consequence". They always do. It is up to me to decide if I can live with the consequences of those actions/words.

 

[Thagdal]

And because it's important to say, his guns weren't "I support rape," but rather, "I'm a comic artist, and your personal trauma or trigger doesn't mean that I need to restrict my own comedy, or that I need to apologize every time I draw something someone might find less sensitive than required."

As he's pointed out a number of times, it's ridiculous that this is what got people riled up, after years of jokes about murder, dismemberment, grievous bodily harm, penises, vaginas, and all other manner of crude or potentially offensive humor. The people choosing to be offended by this aren't offended because he drew insensitive comedy. They're being offended because he drew insensitive comedy about a personal pet cause of theirs.

It is not ridiculous to be offended by this comic:

It falls far away from your description of 'PA's guns'. That isn't an insensitive bit of comedy, that's a shallow, insincere, condescending apology that belittles the people it claims to be apologizing to.
It also makes them (PA) look like smug gits.

The initial joke I don't think was worth boycotting them for, but I can see why people would after their response to criticism of it.

Edit: A time line for those interested: http://debacle.tumblr.com/post/3041940865/the-pratfall-of-penny-arcade-a-timeline

 

[Dannager]

It is not ridiculous to be offended by this comic:

Yes, it is.

It falls far away from your description of 'PA's guns'. That isn't an insensitive bit of comedy, that's a shallow, insincere, condescending apology that belittles the people it claims to be apologizing to.

The people they are responding to are the people who accused them of being rape apologists, or of promoting rape culture. Those people deserve to be belittled. If you aren't one of the people who was conflating the PA guys with rapists, you weren't who they were satirizing.

Did you think that comic was supposed to be an apology? It wasn't. It was them highlighting how obscenely ridiculous it is of people to draw a link between making a comical reference to rape in a comic strip and supporting rapists. It "claims" to be an apology in the same way I might "claim" to be the Queen of England.

Yes, it was condescending and insincere. That was the point. If you're going to make an idiot out of yourself on the internet by accusing two guys who run a multimillion dollar children's charity of being rape apologists because they referenced rape in a joke, you're probably going to be the target of some well-deserved condescension.

 

[Cadence]

... or of promoting rape culture. Those people deserve to be belittled...

Thank goodness there are plenty of people willing to jump into the breach and defend edgy millionaire cartoonists from oversensitive rape victims. We're certainly more in danger of losing edgy humor than we are of having a rape culture.

http://oscar.go.com/blogs/oscar-news/seth-macfarlane-to-host-85th-oscars
http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/sv-datasheet-a.pdf
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/09/130914-rape-asia-pacific-un-men-violence-women/

Bonus points for using running a children's charity as a defense argument for something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sandusky#The_Second_Mile

I'm bad at drawing, but if I add a smiley face , that makes this humor for anyone who chooses to be offended, right?

 

[jimtillman]

Thank goodness there are plenty of people willing to jump into the breach and defend edgy millionaire cartoonists from oversensitive rape victims. We're certainly more in danger of losing edgy humor than we are have having a rape culture.

http://oscar.go.com/blogs/oscar-news/seth-macfarlane-to-host-85th-oscars
http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/sv-datasheet-a.pdf
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/09/130914-rape-asia-pacific-un-men-violence-women/

and bonus points for showing that people who run charities for children never do bad things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sandusky#The_Second_Mile

I'm bad at drawing, but if I add a smiley face , that make this humor for anyone who chooses to be offended, right?

I am a survivor of rape, from 7 to 16 it was a horrible regular occurrence that was inflicted on me and I think that there is some merit int he concept of rape culture though I feel that it is often a term that is to vague to actually be useful but in the case of this comic I am not seeing an issue.
The joke was not about rape , they have not defended rape.
I do however thank that they allowed there emotions to get the better of them with some of there responses, , but I get why, , they received not only there share of ridiculous responses but also threats to themselves and there family and they got pissed off about it, which came off badly in some of there responses.

As for being offended by humor?
I think that I would be hard pressed to find a lot of humor that could not conceivably offend someone, that's the nature of a lot maybe most humor.
It might be more useful to ask what was the humor about, why was it funny or not funny in your opinion and if you were offended what exactly you found offensive.