Readied actions interrupting charges

[KarinsDad]

Why not?

I'm not sure by what you mean "at least for a shift." The counter-charge tactic and the shift tactic are two completely different things.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, here's what he's talking about:

There are two monsters: monster M and player P.

P readies an action to charge monster M when monster M moves.

No, we were not talking about that.

We were talking about

P readies an action to shift (or move) away when monster M moves next to him. Monster M charges (instead of move and attack).

The advantage of P's ready action is that if M were doing a normal move and attack, M is now 10 feet away and cannot attack, even with a charge (charge requires 10 feet).

AAs contention is that since M still has move left over as part of his charge, he can continue to move as part of his charge. My contention is that just like normal move when a foe finishes his movement next to a PC and is now about to attack, his move action is over, his standard action is about to start, and the PC's ready action shifts the PC away.

 

[NMcCoy]

The advantage of P's ready action is that if M were doing a normal move and attack, M is now 10 feet away and cannot attack, even with a charge (charge requires 10 feet).

AAs contention is that since M still has move left over as part of his charge, he can continue to move as part of his charge. My contention is that just like normal move when a foe finishes his movement next to a PC and is now about to attack, his move action is over, his standard action is about to start, and the PC's ready action shifts the PC away.

What? There's no "about to attack" state, and you're not reacting to "a monster ends its move action", you're reacting to "a monster enters a square next to me". If M still has movement left, he can keep moving in the "normal move" case. Readied actions can react on each square of movement - what makes the monster's movement suddenly be over because you reacted to it?

 

[sfedi]

What? There's no "about to attack" state, and you're not reacting to "a monster ends its move action", you're reacting to "a monster enters a square next to me". If M still has movement left, he can keep moving in the "normal move" case. Readied actions can react on each square of movement - what makes the monster's movement suddenly be over because you reacted to it?

There IS an "about to attack" state.
When you declare "I attack X" that's when triggers like "When attacked ..." go off.

In addition, you CAN react to the end of a move action.
In fact, that's the general rule.
There is an exception that you can also react to each square of movement, but the general rule is to react AFTER all the action is done.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Roll a saving throw. If you succed, you may attack the new target, because you adapted to the situation.

Or, what i favour: roll a hard or moderate Int, wis, insight or perception check, whatever you seem fits best. It is not that the fighter suddenly appears out of nowhere. There is only the question if you notice what he plans and can react to it.

Also readying a charge is also quite dodgy... 6 squares of movement, before the enemy can take his next single step?

 

[sfedi]

Yep, that's quite deodgy.

I was thinking of allowing Reactions to be able to interrupt single square movements only on move actions, and not when the movement is part of a Standard.

Even with this, the "I move 6 before you move 1" is still there.

 

[JimiBones83]

Consider the following scenario:

A monster M is 6 squares away from a target T. M attempts to charge T, but as a readied action, after M has moved three squares, a fighter F charges M and marks him. (M has not used any actions prior to this this turn.)

Which of the following, if any, is true?

1. M is required to keep charging T, taking an OA from F in the process.

(1a. What about if the result of the readied action was to make getting to F impossible? Suppose that instead of F readying, T readied an action to move out of charge range. Or F was a wizard, and cast a wall of ice to block the charge path.)

2. M can stop moving, and make a charge attack against F instead.

3. M can stop moving, and use a non-charge melee attack power against F.

4. M can stop moving, but if he does so, he can take no further actions this round.

changing targets is a free action, so M can change his target to F once his turn resumes if he chooses. You can be sure that changing targets is a free action because when you take a full attack action you are not limited to attacking the same creature for the entire round, you can change targets with each attack if you choose. full attack is a full round action just like charging.

his charge must be in a straight line, if F has blocked that straight line then continuing on to T is not an option. the only action other than the one I mentioned above that I can see can be taken would be to forfeit the remainder of its turn

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

changing targets is a free action, so M can change his target to F once his turn resumes if he chooses. You can be sure that changing targets is a free action because when you take a full attack action you are not limited to attacking the same creature for the entire round, you can change targets with each attack if you choose. full attack is a full round action just like charging.

his charge must be in a straight line, if F has blocked that straight line then continuing on to T is not an option. the only action other than the one I mentioned above that I can see can be taken would be to forfeit the remainder of its turn

Hmmmmm, I don't actually know of any "changing targets" rule. In fact the rules simply state that you pick a target when you initiate an attack. Charging is VERY ambiguous because it is an ACTION, not a power, so the rules are less clear cut. In essence ALL of the OP's questions fall into grey areas of the rules. It is never specified what happens if your charge is 'spoilt' in some fashion and cannot be completed, nor is it clear exactly what the rules are for selecting 'targets' of actions that aren't attack powers. Its really ALL up to the DM here.

 

[Starfox]

A funny side effect of the restrictive reading of these rules, is that a readied action to move away can almost always avoid one attack per round. You simply ready to move away as the attack begins. The attack no longer has a valid target, and thus fails. You can move out of an area effect in a similar fashion. Of course, while constantly readying actions you don't actually get to make any attacks yourself.

 

[Obryn]

What about a readied action vs. resurrecting a five year old thread?

 

[jodyjohnson]

This is a good example of why I interpret "Story over rules" as using the story to inform resolution of actions rather than solely using mechanics.

The mechanics lead us into these contrived and disputed resolutions when you can use the story (what actually happens in game) to inform how the situation resolves.

Instead of using the mechanics to game the system, it's using the intended 'story' to resolve the action using the mechanics (or not when needed).