D&D 5E Legends & Lore 03/24/2014

[Agamon]

Yeah, I think it's wrong to assume that it's only new players that want to streamline PC creation. I often sigh heavily when forced to plow through long equipment lists, either for myself or, worse, helping a new player make their PC. Something like this is nice as an option.

 

[Derren]

The video game peanut gallery isn't exactly known for the most reasoned and well-informed opinions out there. And WotC is a very different kind of company from a video game publisher.

If WotC links its design process to video games, which they did with that "digital" comment, then they have to accept that also some negative associations rub off. And considering what they did with 4E I do not think WotC is that far of from a bigger VG publisher which has a though process of "Simpler game -> More potential customers -> Profit" which has resulted in more and more simple games lacking and form of challenge and even resulted in strategy games being remade into FPS (Syndicate). The wishes of older gamers, even the long time fans of the franchise, are constantly disregarded because they make up the smaller market share to the "IplayeverythingaslongasithasexplosionsGoGoGo" gamers of today.

 

[GX.Sigma]

If WotC links its design process to video games, which they did with that "digital" comment, then they have to accept that also some negative associations rub off. And considering what they did with 4E I do not think WotC is that far of from a bigger VG publisher which has a though process of "Simpler game -> More potential customers -> Profit" which has resulted in more and more simple games lacking and form of challenge and even resulted in strategy games being remade into FPS (Syndicate).

I really think you're overreacting. Mike even says in this article not that they're trying to make D&D as simple as possible, but to make the simplest possible option as simple as possible (while still having more complex options for those who want them).

 

[Agamon]

When you're considered the gateway product, being accessible isn't a bad thing. Especially if the accessibility is an option. Ironically, having such an option actually increases complexity for the entire game, as it increases options for those that want to consider all of them.

 

[howandwhy99]

The Numenera Oddities-style feature makes me think this might have been a contribution by Monte Cook before he left. It's a fun start either system focusing on the mysterious nature of items.

The pre-package method as it stands does speed up character creation. Equipment purchasing is historically the most time consuming element. But it's also technically part of playing the game IMO, not character building. This option more than clues players of specific Classes on what options are good for their character. But it's a small change and not very interfering.

EDIT: In other words, the option is telling the players what to do, what to purchase, once the game has begun. But pre-designed mass actions to speed up play are historically part of D&D anyways. Creating an in-game rationale for the highly particular packages resolves any issues for those who use in-game designs and rules as actual rules.

Also selection depends on what the PCs are about to go do. So purchasing starting equipment can be part of first session campaign creation, group creation and goals set for the first game.

EDIT: The idea is, equipment, items, locations, people, even ideas are all valuable in the game because of its current design. Some designs will weight these differently than the default. Having the option to customize a campaign before it begins means altering not just the value of what might be purchased after character generation, but also the pre-determined starting location pricing.

I don't know how the package option is balanced in comparison to starting gold, but I'm guessing that's taken care of.

 

[Ichneumon]

I support the inclusion of a Grab it and Go option.

 

[I'm A Banana]

If WotC links its design process to video games, which they did with that "digital" comment, then they have to accept that also some negative associations rub off.

Erm....it's a pretty tremendous gulf between mentioning digital offerings in an offhanded way and saying that you are designing D&D like a video game designer designs video games. So I'd dispute your thesis there.

And considering what they did with 4E I do not think WotC is that far of from a bigger VG publisher which has a though process of "Simpler game -> More potential customers -> Profit" which has resulted in more and more simple games lacking and form of challenge and even resulted in strategy games being remade into FPS (Syndicate).

I mean, I'm cool with 4e in general, but I wouldn't consider it a very good example of a simple game. It is complex and fiddly and weird and counter-intuitive and jargony and abstract and all sorts of things that would put a newbie off. Simpler than 3e maybe, but 3e is probably at a bit of an extreme end of complexity in D&D overall, so it's a little bit like comparing pure white to ivory.

If 4e was trying to be a simple game (period), they did a pretty half-cocked job of it.

The wishes of older gamers, even the long time fans of the franchise, are constantly disregarded because they make up the smaller market share to the "IplayeverythingaslongasithasexplosionsGoGoGo" gamers of today.

5e is one of D&D's retro editions (it shares this with BECMI). I don't think they're doing anything at the expense of older gamers or long-time fans. I'd challenge the narrative that simplification is always at the expense of older gamers or long-time fans, too: my 16 year old self benefits a lot less from that than my 32 year old self.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I remember it taking up to 30 minutes just to decide on starting equipment. Which to me is a problem since really the only thing most would care about is the character's weapons and armour, but often stuck with having to fill in things like sack x2, torch, adventurer's outfit, soap, hemp rope and so on.

 

[TwoSix]

I remember it taking up to 30 minutes just to decide on starting equipment. Which to me is a problem since really the only thing most would care about is the character's weapons and armour, but often stuck with having to fill in things like sack x2, torch, adventurer's outfit, soap, hemp rope and so on.

Is this a thing people still do? I can't remember the last time I purchased equipment that wasn't magical.

 

[Anselyn]

Quite a harmless L&L article today, let's see how we manage to start a fight about it...
[...]

What typically bogs down equipment selection (note that I'm thinking about 1st level PCs here, so I'm not even including magic items) IMXP, is that there is a large amount of inexpensive mundane items that "might be useful". Stuff that makes light, stuff to eat or drink, stuff to carry other stuff, ropes, sticks, minor chemical substances, stuff for reading and writing... The problem is that if you have even just enough money for half a dozen of these minor items, players start thinking "what could we still possibly add to our equipment that might come in handy", and that can take a long time to decide.

Wouldn't the 21st century solution be to allow players to retrospectively declare what the character has when it's useful for the story? c.f. "Preparedness" in the GUMSHOE system.