Pathfinder 1E So what do you think is wrong with Pathfinder? Post your problems and we will fix it.

[Imaro]

http://paizo.com/prd/skills/disableDevice.html
Both lock picking and sabotaging use the same skill.

Yes but attempting to open a lock is always a full round action...

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Yes but attempting to open a lock is always a full round action...

I just checked back and you're right, I was looking at the wrong table on that page.

That said, hopefully this is above level 1 for the conversation, since at minimum the DC for picking locks is 20.

A level 1 Rogue with 4 ranks in Disable Device and 18 DEX means you still have to roll high to open that door.

 

[Wicht]

http://paizo.com/prd/skills/disableDevice.html
Both lock picking and sabotaging use the same skill.

I edited for clarity. Picking a lock on a door is always a 6 second action per attempt. Only if the mechanism is more complex than a lock is it going to possibly take longer. And even then I would allow the rogue to rush it with a penalty to the roll.

Then the Wizard deserves to die for being dumb(and also why I repeatedly said to prepare useful general purpose spells, and leave some open for later. A Wizard who leaves all of his slots open is asking to die).

Alright, the little story was just a "what-if" but I am always impressed by the ability of those who are pro "wizards are too-powerful" to always have the wizard prepared for everything in their what-if's but if you imagine a party at the end of several hours of adventuring, suddenly being chased by an ultra-powerful beasty they have no hope of defeating, and the wizard is out of spells, then its just poor planning on the part of the wizard.

The point is, you can't plan for every eventuality and in actual game-play at my table, I have never, ever seen a wizard have all the spells they need all the time. Give them a day to prepare, and sure, they can deal with that one foreseen problem - but then there are a couple half-dozen more unseen (or should be). And in those cases, the other classes always perform slightly or a lot better.

On those days when the wizard prepares mainly for combat, then they are stymied by the traps, and don't have their utility spells. If they prepare all utility spells, they are little help in combat. If they try to have a little of everything, they are useful here or there but its limited. At low levels they run out of spells pretty fast (scrolls not-withstanding) and at high-levels they run out of high level spells pretty fast and the low level spells are a lot less generally useful.

 

[Wicht]

In the original spirit of the thread - if you find the intelligence boosting items adding retroactive skills are problematic in making wizards too skillful, just make sure that all such items add only to a specific skill or set of skills, preferably ones that are intellectual in nature such as Knowledge or Craft, but don't be afraid to make it increase things like Profession (cooking), or Craft (Basketweaving). If nothing else it makes the item more interesting.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

I edited for clarity. Picking a lock on a door is always a 6 second action per attempt. Only if the mechanism is more complex than a lock is it going to possibly take longer. And even then I would allow the rogue to rush it with a penalty to the roll.

Agreed, though I'm just going by RAW which doesn't have any kind of rushing penalty I've seen, so I haven't been factoring one in.

Alright, the little story was just a "what-if" but I am always impressed by the ability of those who are pro "wizards are too-powerful" to always have the wizard prepared for everything in their what-if's but if you imagine a party at the end of several hours of adventuring, suddenly being chased by an ultra-powerful beasty they have no hope of defeating, and the wizard is out of spells, then its just poor planning on the part of the wizard.

I typically call this a sign of a bad DM to throw an unwinnable encounter at a point when the party is probably half-dead and all out of resources.

In the example given, there was no mention of the party being just through a series of encounters(and even then, the rest of the party is just as resource-drained and half-dead as the Wizard is). If they were, the DM throwing a TPK encounter at them then is just him being an ass. In that situation, then sure, the party dying horribly isn't anyone's fault because there's no possible way they could win.
If they were fresh up, or only have been through one encounter, the Wizard not having anything to do against the monster except twiddle his thumbs and wait to die is entirely his own fault.

And I'm pro "wizards are too powerful" because I play Pathfinder and know exactly how powerful spellcasters are.

 

[billd91]

Knock is a level 2 spell, which is still really cheap to make, and you can throw one in a wand and never need to prepare it again.

Meh. The caster level starts get a little more expensive when you're trying to keep up with the lock-picking rogue investing in it every level. Is it really going to be worth scribing it at CL 10 just to have a chance of getting through an amazing lock's DC of 40? I'm not so sure. I certainly don't think I'd put that in a wand.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

On those days when the wizard prepares mainly for combat, then they are stymied by the traps, and don't have their utility spells. If they prepare all utility spells, they are little help in combat.

The Wizard flat-out should not be preparing utility spells, unless he knows for a fact he won't have a single encounter, when he has Scribe Scroll from level 1.

 

[gamerprinter]

In the original spirit of the thread - if you find the intelligence boosting items adding retroactive skills are problematic in making wizards too skillful, just make sure that all such items add only to a specific skill or set of skills, preferably ones that are intellectual in nature such as Knowledge or Craft, but don't be afraid to make it increase things like Profession (cooking), or Craft (Basketweaving). If nothing else it makes the item more interesting.

I can see some thematic and oddball magic items like a Chef's Hat that grants a +5 bonus to Profession (cooking) and similar for other professions, craft skills and more.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Meh. The caster level starts get a little more expensive when you're trying to keep up with the lock-picking rogue investing in it every level. Is it really going to be worth scribing it at CL 10 just to have a chance of getting through an amazing lock's DC of 40? I'm not so sure. I certainly don't think I'd put that in a wand.

Why wouldn't you put it on a wand? At 50 charges, that's enough to last through an entire typical campaign(or by the time it does eventually run out, buying or making one is cheap). Besides, DC40 for a lock is still blisteringly high even for Rogues at level 10, so using Knock on a lock like that is still the more favorable option.

 

[Wicht]

I typically call this a sign of a bad DM to throw an unwinnable encounter at a point when the party is probably half-dead and all out of resources.

Why is that bad DMing? Sounds like fun to me.

Who remembers the dungeons and adventures that were a breeze? People remember the challenges, the near death experiences, and the million-to-one chances that they somehow managed to just pull off.

A good adventure, by my lights, ends with the party on their last legs, breathing hard, covered in muck, bleeding from multiple wounds and leaning on broken swords.