Pathfinder 1E So what do you think is wrong with Pathfinder? Post your problems and we will fix it.

[GMforPowergamers]

I have seen a single wizard at 9th level with abou a dozzen scrolls 3-4 wands and a magic ring out damage the fighter out stealth the rogue and out talk the bard...

I have seen a Druid who had spells and more skills then anyone but the rogue at the table have a pet with compair able (just below) combat skill to the fighter

My mystic theurg took a LA hit and was still a 1 man party at level 11 (3/3/5) in a game with 12th level pcs

I also run above average games, but I find I have to say things like "no only the rogue rolls this " or "this NPC only will listen to x" to make things fair

 

[Wicht]

Heh.

The party hears the coming sound of doom. Closer it comes, the howls and gibbering getting increasingly louder...

But the door is locked.

"I can get this," says the wizard, "I left a spell slot open this morning. Give me about fifteen minutes."

With a shake of his head, the rogue steps forward, pulls out his lock-picks, and speedily opens the door in seconds (less than 6 to be precise). "Maybe tomorrow grandpa," says the rogue sardonically.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

But which scrolls do they make at level 1 that makes them the most useful of all characters?

Pretty much any really. Wizards are already really good at level 1 when they're supposedly "at their most vulnerable". Being able to make super-cheap scrolls at level 1 just exacerbates the problem.

And scrolls are one-shots, so it will last for exactly 2-3 uses. Essentially a scroll merely increases the wizards ability to cast spells by a small amount per day, and then only until the scroll gets used.

And that's enough.

I have never seen scrolls as gamebreaking or overpowered. They make a given wizard only marginally more useful, and then only if they have the right scroll.

When you're starting point is the Pathfinder Wizard, "marginally more useful" still makes them one of the better classes in the game.

Add to this, the wizard has to have access to the spell to make the scroll. At lower levels, those spells are much harder to come by.

Wizards start with 3+INT mod spells, gets 2 bonus spells per level, then can add any spells to his spellbook from scrolls and other spellbooks he finds. Having access to the spell is not a problem for the Wizard.

Heck, if you really want to be cheesy, you can take the Daivrat Prestige Class that essentially gives the Wizard a new permanent spell per day.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Heh.

The party hears the coming sound of doom. Closer it comes, the howls and gibbering getting increasingly louder...

But the door is locked.

"I can get this," says the wizard, "I left a spell slot open this morning. Give me about fifteen minutes."

With a shake of his head, the rogue steps forward, pulls out his lock-picks, and speedily opens the door in seconds (less than 6 to be precise). "Maybe tomorrow grandpa," says the rogue sardonically.

I can't really imagine how in the world a party got into a life-or-death situation where a locked door is their only means to escape a TPK.

Also, it takes at minimum 6 seconds, since Disable Device is a full-round action at minimum(if it's a Simple Lock, anything higher takes anywhere from 1d4-2d4 rounds), so better hope whatever TPK monster is approaching isn't right behind them(provided the Wizard doesn't just save-or-die it, or drop a Summon to keep it busy)

 

[Wicht]

Wizards start with 3+INT mod spells, gets 2 bonus spells per level, then can add any spells to his spellbook from scrolls and other spellbooks he finds. Having access to the spell is not a problem for the Wizard.

In your games maybe. In mine, finding a spell book on an enemy with useful spells is a happy day.

I am also skeptical of a game where the wizard can just announce that they are taking a desired prestige class. In how many games do you find characters regularly having peaceful interactions with genies?

 

[EnglishLanguage]

In your games maybe. In mine, finding a spell book on an enemy with useful spells is a happy day.

I am also skeptical of a game where the wizard can just announce that they are taking a desired prestige class. In how many games do you find characters regularly having peaceful interactions with genies?

Usually just the spells you get naturally from leveling are enough. Bonus stuff from enemy spellbooks is just gravy.

Well, I said if you wanted to be cheesy, most people cheesing like that don't usually care about flavor reasoning. Plus it was mostly a hypothetical anyways.

 

[Wicht]

I can't really imagine how in the world a party got into a life-or-death situation where a locked door is their only means to escape a TPK.

Really. I can imagine it pretty easy.

Also, it takes at minimum 6 seconds, since Disable Device is a full-round action at minimum(if it's a Simple Lock, anything higher takes anywhere from 1d4-2d4 rounds), so better hope whatever TPK monster is approaching isn't right behind them(provided the Wizard doesn't just save-or-die it, or drop a Summon to keep it busy)

I think you are confusing picking a lock with sabotaging a device or disabling a very complex device.

And the wizard doesn't have his save or die spell because he left that slot open.

 

[Tuft]

1. Your bards have to use magic for diplomacy? Why? And how is magic more effective than non-magic for diplomacy. This is a game-world/GM problem. Charm is the worst way to make friends and influence people because it eventually wears off.
2. Invisibility and flight is better than non-magical sneaking (mostly; of course the DM should still be having the character make Fly checks with the result modifying the subsequent stealth check). Until the spell wears off. But rogues can also play this game and turn invisible. But after the spell wears off, they still have the edge.
3. The wizard can outdo the fighter in damage for one or two rounds, but not for much more than that. But seeing as how they used some of their best slots for outsneaking the rogue, that's not going to happen today.
4. Fair enough. But I have seen some people try to make magic be too good by making it always work as desired, which, by the RAW, it does not.

I play a Pathfinder Bard in our Skull&Shackles campaign. I've got enough Use Magic Device to be able to use just about any scroll I can buy - and our GM is very liberal with magic item purchases.

And still I find that I use the skill every time instead of a spell on a scroll... Why? Simple - all a matter of action economy. When the brown goo hits the whirly-thingy, it is much better to climb or jump now, instead of flying next round...

As for skill points, we've always house-ruled in 3.0 and 3.5 that INT increases are retroactive, so the Pathfinder rule is no stranger to us. However, when the wizard gets an INT item, you get an item that increases the attribute that is appropriate to the skill and this raises the max in a way merely more skill points are unable to do.

Of course, the item creation bonus is shared with all in the group - same cost for all. When there are multiple casters in the group the creation feats are often distributed - "you do wondrous items, I'll do wands, and she'll do weapons...". (In our current campaign we instead have an equal number of additional NPCs each that benefit all with their creation feats - the advantage of having a ship with a crew... )

As for sneaking, I've found in practice that there are just too many ways around it - monsters with scent, blindsense, tremorsense, etc, etc, that it simply makes a healthy stealth skill the safer option - even more so with increasing level. Also note that invisibility as far as I recall is not absolute in Pathfinder. It is just a major bonus to stealth - so if you don't have a decent DEX score and stealth skill as a base, well, it's just going to take you so far. And the stealthy character will probably get that +5 stealth item, since it is her speciality, while the "rule them all" wizard hardly can get a +5 item for every skill... (Oh, the slots! )

 

[EnglishLanguage]

I think you are confusing picking a lock with sabotaging a device.

http://paizo.com/prd/skills/disableDevice.html
Both lock picking and sabotaging use the same skill.

And the wizard doesn't have his save or die spell because he left that slot open.

Then the Wizard deserves to die for being dumb(and also why I repeatedly said to prepare useful general purpose spells, and leave some open for later. A Wizard who leaves all of his slots open is asking to die).

 

[EnglishLanguage]

As for sneaking, I've found in practice that there are just too many ways around it - monsters with scent, blindsense, tremorsense, etc, etc, that it simply makes a healthy stealth skill the safer option - even more so with increasing level. Also note that invisibility as far as I recall is not absolute in Pathfinder. It is just a major bonus to stealth - so if you don't have a decent DEX score and stealth skill as a base, well, it's just going to take you so far. And the stealthy character will probably get that +5 stealth item, since it is her speciality, while the "rule them all" wizard hardly can get a +5 item for every skill... (Oh, the slots! )

The same monsters that screw over invisibility also screw over mundane stealth attempts(except for Tremorsense, a flying invisible Wizard bypasses that completely whereas a Rogue can't) since they bypass the whole "need to make Perception checks" thing(and the Wizard can at least Dimension Door out when things get hairy).