Pathfinder 1E So what do you think is wrong with Pathfinder? Post your problems and we will fix it.

[EnglishLanguage]

As a wise man once said: "Reading between the lines stops being useful when you ignore the lines themselves while looking for something between them that may or may not be there."

I know you think you're being clever here, but it falls completely flat when I haven't been reading between the lines and am just pointing out exactly what happened in the topic.

 

[Wicht]

And, for the third time, by the time DC40 locks start showing up, Wizards have better ways of bypassing the doors, ESPECIALLY at the level 10 example you've given(like casting Passwall on the door or wall by the door or summoning a Wooly Rhinocerous to bash the door down)

So the level 10 wizard has saved his most powerful spell (a utility spell) just for this purpose? Resourceful of him.

The point is, that yes, wizards can bypass a door better than a rogue. But the key word here is the singular "a." Any given door, under optimal circumstances, the wizard's passwall spell might be the way to go. But what about the next door, and the one after that?

Besides which, I figure its the wizard who, upon casting his passwall into the inner sanctum, was the one to let out the shoggoth which is now chasing the party.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Maybe that, in itself, is a sign of how broken things are at high levels. Of course, that's been true of most editions of D&D, and there could be other reasons why people mostly stick to lower levels as well.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

Since we have settled on a level 10 party, they won't get disintegrate for another level.

And since when is bashing open a stout door faster than picking the lock? And summoning? You take a full round to cast the spell and chances are pretty good the rogue already has the door open.

No - the rogue is going to shine in this example I think.

And again, you are assuming a wizard with full access to all his most powerful spells. In a party running away from something.

If the Rogue has time to pick the lock at all, then the Wizard has time to summon something.

Again, level 10 is one of the worst times to argue against Wizard power because that's when martials start completely getting left in the dust.

Also, passwall lets me open a passage in the door/wall around the door so I don't even need to pick the lock.

I can also cast Fabricate to have the door turned into a lawnchair, or a wooden garden gnome.

Or if I just get really sick of it I just Teleport to the exit.

 

[Dungeonman]

I know you think you're being clever here, but it falls completely flat when I haven't been reading between the lines and am just pointing out exactly what happened in the topic.

I admit I haven't paid attention to the details of this squabble, but I'm pointing out that you're not accepting their intrepretation of their own experiences in their own gameplay. Is it cool to be vigorously defensive of your fav game against criticism, and yet simultaneously be vigorously aggressive and critical of someone else's fav gameplay experience?

 

[Wicht]

No, once AGAIN, I'm assuming the Wizard isn't completely braindead and blew all his most powerful spells at cannon fodder fights.

No you are assuming optimal spell choice and full spell availability every time.

You tell me a smart wizard never memorizes utility spells and then pull out a utility spell to bypass a tense situation. And not just any utility spell, but the most powerful spell the wizard could have prepared that day.

 

[pickin_grinnin]

Just for the sake of argument, let's assume that being a spellcaster means that you're the most effective and efficient character in the game, period. The GM can still opt to limit the power of spellcasters in his/her game, to even things out.

I have never allowed psionics in any fantasy campaign I run, no matter what system was being used. I just don't like the use of psionics in fantasy campaigns that also include the ability to cast spells. There's nothing wrong with anyone using psionics in D&D or Pathfinder, but I don't, because I don't care for it.

In terms of things that are broken in Pathfinder...

Though I haven't done so yet, I have been very, very tempted to tweak the way that daggers and other knives are handled in D&D and Pathfinder. In real life, a skilled knife fighter can fight someone with a sword or other weapon and stand a pretty good chance of winning, as long as (s)he can move within striking distance. Swords don't work well up-close, and a skilled knife fighter can do a ton of damage if (s)he is within striking distance of a target. In real life, when it comes to weapons of all kinds, the amount of damage - and how easily you can strike a foe - really gets down to skill with the weapon.

 

[EnglishLanguage]

So the level 10 wizard has saved his most powerful spell (a utility spell) just for this purpose? Resourceful of him.

The point is, that yes, wizards can bypass a door better than a rogue. But the key word here is the singular "a." Any given door, under optimal circumstances, the wizard's passwall spell might be the way to go. But what about the next door, and the one after that?

Besides which, I figure its the wizard who, upon casting his passwall into the inner sanctum, was the one to let out the shoggoth which is now chasing the party.

So wait, the party is trying to escape from a TPK monster by running further into the dungeon?

And yes, "a" door. If there's 3 locked doors that all take a full round to pick and the Rogue still has a bout a 50%~ chance to pick the lock at a full-round each attempt, the monster will still catch up to the party easily unless the Rogue's on fire with his dice(and then the Shoggoth from the inner sanctum is released as you mention so the party's still screwed).

And fair enough on the utility thing, if I don't have a scroll of passwall handy I can just teleport the party to the exit(THAT'S a utility spell that's worth preparing and saving for when things get hairy)

 

[EnglishLanguage]

I admit I haven't paid attention to the details of this squabble, but I'm pointing out that you're not accepting their intrepretation of their own experiences in their own gameplay. Is it cool to be vigorously defensive of your fav game against criticism, and yet simultaneously be vigorously aggressive and critical of someone else's fav gameplay experience?

The problem is I have people telling me spellcasters in PATHFINDER aren't stupidly powerful. I play Pathfinder every week and I've read through the SRD numerous times, and I honestly can't imagine how anyone doesn't see it.

 

[Wicht]

If the Rogue has time to pick the lock at all, then the Wizard has time to summon something.

Sorta. The Rogue finishes the lock by the time the creature shows up.

Again, level 10 is one of the worst times to argue against Wizard power because that's when martials start completely getting left in the dust.

Different experiences and all that.

Also, passwall lets me open a passage in the door/wall around the door so I don't even need to pick the lock.

I can also cast Fabricate to have the door turned into a lawnchair, or a wooden garden gnome.

Or if I just get really sick of it I just Teleport to the exit.

So your 10th level wizard has access to Teleport, Fabricate and Passwall all at the same time?

And again, you are pulling out three utility spells, which smart wizards don't prepare ahead of time.

And I call shenanigans on the wizard out-performing the fighter. Your wizard has reserved his most powerful slots for utility spells in this example.