D&D 5E L&L for 5/12

[Majoru Oakheart]

How do we know that a cursed item doesn't take affect until the character attempts an attunement?

That's definitely the implication in the article. It says that some items have drawbacks when attuned(i.e. cursed or at least slightly bad in some way). You can identify an item to see it's drawbacks before attuning.

Though, it does seem like identify is pretty useless. Assuming that cursed items are far and few between, it seems pointless to cast the spell on every item you find under the assumption that it might be cursed. Especially if it has a cost of some sort to cast. Unless nearly every item has some sort of drawback even if it's minor.

 

[pemerton]

If you are wary of attuning to an item, the identify spell reveals all of an item's properties and drawbacks. Though this spell is no longer necessary to learn an item's secrets, it does save you the risk of first attuning to an item and then learning what it does. [/I]

So why even bother with identify?

As [MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION] pointed out, because it lets you avoide the risks of attunement.

How do we know that a cursed item doesn't take affect until the character attempts an attunement?

As stated by Mearls in his L&L column:

When you attune an item, you run the risk of falling under its thrall. Though not all items requiring attunement carry a drawback, one never knows the item's purpose or the intentions of its creator. . .

Attunement poses something of a risk for a character. It shows that magic items are built for a purpose—but sometimes that purpose weighs more heavily on a character than the bonuses or special abilities provided by an item. As with many things we're designing for D&D, the drawbacks of attunement are another tool that DMs can make use of to encourage roleplaying and bring the campaign to life. . .

Though named artifacts such as the Hand of Vecna will come with specific attunement drawbacks, general magic items lack them. For example, the staff of defense requires attunement, but its entry lacks any drawbacks for attunement. Instead, the DM has the option to flesh out a specific staff's backstory and add options for a character who attunes to it. . .

The story elements of attunement are meant to bring items to life as rare and mysterious objects, embedded in the history and cultures of the campaign. Used well, attunement can add a sense of wonder to the game and make magic items feel unique and exciting. . .

If you are wary of attuning to an item, the identify spell reveals all of an item's properties and drawbacks. Though this spell is no longer necessary to learn an item's secrets, it does save you the risk of first attuning to an item and then learning what it does.​

That is all pretty unanimbiguous in my view. Attunement is part of a broader framework of mechanics for handling items, based around item histories, personalities and drawbacks. The Identify spell is a way for players to negotiate their interaction with that mechanical framework.

Assuming that cursed items are far and few between, it seems pointless to cast the spell on every item you find under the assumption that it might be cursed.

The implication of the article is that the GM is expected to be giving magic items stories.

Given the overall somewhat retro vibe of D&Dnext, I would especially expect Identify to interact with rumours and quests. For instance, the PCs know that somewhere within the dungeon they can find the Ancient Item of Whatever. But of course there will be other items in the dungeon too, that resemble it but aren't it. (Like the false crypt in ToH.) Identify provides one option for trying to engage the information flow and victory conditions of that sort of adventure.

 

[Mistwell]

That's definitely the implication in the article. It says that some items have drawbacks when attuned(i.e. cursed or at least slightly bad in some way). You can identify an item to see it's drawbacks before attuning.

Though, it does seem like identify is pretty useless. Assuming that cursed items are far and few between, it seems pointless to cast the spell on every item you find under the assumption that it might be cursed. Especially if it has a cost of some sort to cast. Unless nearly every item has some sort of drawback even if it's minor.

I have been putting a minor beneficial ability, and a flaw (curse), on almost every magic item I've given out. In each case, the flaw (curse) is a part of the item creator's natural personality trait. For example, one item makes a wielder greedy (the creator was already greedy), another made the player feel invulnerable and very confident (the creator already felt invincible), etc..

The only magic item the party received (other than minor items like potions) that had no flaw was created by a good NPC - and even those types of items could have flaws.

 

[The Black Ranger]

I like where they are trying to go with but it's a bit all over the place at the moment and here is why.

1: Identify has been made useless.
2: Cursed items are essentially useless.
3: Way too easy to find out the properties of an item.

What I would do differently is require a full day in order to find out something basic. Require Identify and a full day to find out everything except if it's cursed and any attunement powers. I would require full attunement in order to find out if it's cursed or not followed by a save to resist the curse.

The suggested rules at the moment remind me of a elaborate trap requiring a very simple, and obvious, solution to get by it. Nobody in their right mind is going to purposefully accept a cursed item, especially when it's so easy to find out it is indeed cursed.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I like where they are trying to go with but it's a bit all over the place at the moment and here is why.

1: Identify has been made useless.
2: Cursed items are essentially useless.
3: Way too easy to find out the properties of an item.

What I would do differently is require a full day in order to find out something basic. Require Identify and a full day to find out everything except if it's cursed and any attunement powers. I would require full attunement in order to find out if it's cursed or not followed by a save to resist the curse.

The suggested rules at the moment remind me of a elaborate trap requiring a very simple, and obvious, solution to get by it. Nobody in their right mind is going to purposefully accept a cursed item, especially when it's so easy to find out it is indeed cursed.

Re-reading the article, I see nothing to support your take on this. Cursed items aren't specifically mentioned, and your take seems entirely contrary (and I should know!), in that you're assuming the designers are idiots and/or want cursed items to be irrelevant.

It seems more likely that, by the time you find out it's cursed, you're already subject to that curse, because you've been handling it, or decided to attune it, or the like.

Drawbacks aren't curses, note, and if you think players aren't going to accept drawbacks in order to get powerful items, then, wow, I've never met those players in 25+ years of gaming...

 

[Cyberen]

Drawbacks aren't curses, note, and if you think players aren't going to accept drawbacks in order to get powerful items, then, wow, I've never met those players in 25+ years of gaming...

Except the mighty Head of Vecna, of course...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Except the mighty Head of Vecna, of course...

Well, everyone has their limit! But the Head is a good example because it sort of satirizes how far some players are willing to go for power, and it's a long damn way! (Apparently stopping just short of autodecapitation.) Also, one man's "drawback" is another man's roleplaying hook or opportunity for wacky hijinx.

Indeed the problem I see is that, as mentioned by many others, most of the drawbacks seem to be RP-type stuff, which is presumably balancing RAW POWER, and I think anyone who has played D&D with a wide variety of players will know how very wrong that can go, both in terms of failing to balance anything, encouraging bad/annoying RP (I can give examples if needed), and tempting DMs into creating really artificial or annoying situations to highlight the downsides of the items.

 

[The Black Ranger]

Re-reading the article, I see nothing to support your take on this. Cursed items aren't specifically mentioned, and your take seems entirely contrary (and I should know!), in that you're assuming the designers are idiots and/or want cursed items to be irrelevant.

It seems more likely that, by the time you find out it's cursed, you're already subject to that curse, because you've been handling it, or decided to attune it, or the like.

Drawbacks aren't curses, note, and if you think players aren't going to accept drawbacks in order to get powerful items, then, wow, I've never met those players in 25+ years of gaming...

There is nothing to suggest I'm not right. There is also nothing in the article stating the qualifications for handling an item. Who's to say I couldn't learn about it while keeping it wrapped in cloth?

The problem I am seeing is cursed items will continue to he easily identified and avoided.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

There is nothing to suggest I'm not right. There is also nothing in the article stating the qualifications for handling an item. Who's to say I couldn't learn about it while keeping it wrapped in cloth?

The problem I am seeing is cursed items will continue to he easily identified and avoided.

Yeah and there's nothing to suggest that the next President of the United States won't be a dragon, but at the same time, suggesting that's the logical assumption would be pretty bizarre.

The article isn't the rules, but you are acting as though it is. It's a light-touch discussion of their thinking. For you to be right, we have to assume that either:

A) The designers are idiots.

or

B) The designers want to invalidate cursed items.

Neither of those is supported by the article. Logic and experience dictates that neither is likely to be the case, when we see the actual rules. So...

 

[Klaus]

There is nothing to suggest I'm not right. There is also nothing in the article stating the qualifications for handling an item. Who's to say I couldn't learn about it while keeping it wrapped in cloth?

The problem I am seeing is cursed items will continue to he easily identified and avoided.

The main thing I got from the article is that cursed items won't be the "gotcha!" items of previous editions, but will rather be useful items with a drawback, so the player will be faced with a choice: avoid the curse and not benefit from the item, or attune to the item even though it is cursed.