D&D 5E The somewhat lost thrill about undead

[ExploderWizard]

A major facet of the fear undead can cause is the prospect that you might become one of them. Skeletons and zombies may not be the most daunting combatants, but fall to them and some powerful necromancer just around the corner could turn you into another shuffling moaner. More powerful undead can turn you into one of them by draining your life.

If undead are just strewn around like any old monster, they won't be as scary as they should be. Instead, the presence of undead should mean trouble. There may be a formidable master around, or a family concealing their activities. A group of wraiths could stalk a city at night, murdering people in their sleep. Locking their inn room door won't do PCs much good against a foe that can travel through walls. Seeing how former compatriots are now hideous undead is an old trick, but can still be effective.

Descriptions of undead monsters in 1e described them as being unnatural entities that would terrify normal animals, who were responding to creatures who had no place in the world. A pack of ghouls might not be an overwhelming combat encounter for a group of PCs, but what if they were riding on horses near a cliff when the ghouls appeared? Each PC may need to make a Dexterity[Land Mounts] check or have their frightened horse panic and run - potentially right off the edge. If a tavern dog suddenly starts barking and howling at the top of the stairs that go down into the cellar, the regulars are liable to get nervous. Making undead scary often takes a bit of scene-setting and atmosphere, rather than plonking them down and hoping their combat abilities do the job.

This really brings it home. One thing terrifying about a shuffling zombie when you stop and think about it, is that it could easily be YOU. It is also a mobile, hostile reminder of your own mortality and your inevitable fate at some point. The terror felt at possible ending up like them is far greater than the fear of mere death.

 

[howandwhy99]

Called Back
Necromancy/Enchantment (compulsion) [Evil, Language-Dependent, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Wiz/Sor3
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 8 hours
Range: Touch
Targets: 1 corpse less than 1 week dead
Duration: Special
Saving Throw: Neg.
Spell Resistance: Yes

A recently dead, once living creature is turned into a self-willed Zombie retaining whatever class abilities it possessed in life not requiring living status and its original Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma Ability Scores. The returned creature arrives and under a Geas effect for the duration of its existence to perform a particular action per the description of the Geas spell. This effect cannot be dispelled, removed as a curse, or even Wished away without the creature being destroyed. Once the compelled action has been performed the creature loses its sentience, Class Abilities, and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma are lowered to that of a Zombie's. In all respects, it is now a mindless Zombie of its particular type.

Material Component
A gem worth at least 100 gp / level of the creature returned.


This spell allows Necromancers to increase the number of Undead they can control against the party, while limiting them with costs, time spent creating, and specific commands given at casting. It's also brings in stalking undead who might seek you out even as you travel to avoid it. With creative commands many interesting encounters are possible.

 

[Lhorgrim]

Remember that pic from the 1E DMG that showed a trapped room filling with water and a skeleton rising up? That kind of scenario, where the environment is hazardous to the PCs but doesn't hinder the undead can be very scary if well described.

Many types of undead could be described as implacable. What if the PCs are near a pit or ledge and the zombies just press forward, pushing the PC's toward danger. If there are enough undead it could be a race to destroy them fast enough to avoid the hazard.

Unknown numbers. A room full (I mean really full) of bones might only have enough skeletons to challenge the party, but if you describe "all" of the bones rattling and twitching as the first skeletons rise, it could really intimidate the PCs. Same thing with undead rising up from the ground. describe the mist covered ground continuing to tremble even after the initial undead have risen. Let the party fear the unknown. Sometimes you just describe what the PC perceives, not every true detail of the scene. Is the PC really going to be able to get an accurate count on those skeletons after engaging in melee while they're still rising? Maybe you tell them "it looks to you that around half a dozen skeletons have risen from the bone covered floor...so far!"

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This really brings it home. One thing terrifying about a shuffling zombie when you stop and think about it, is that it could easily be YOU. It is also a mobile, hostile reminder of your own mortality and your inevitable fate at some point. The terror felt at possible ending up like them is far greater than the fear of mere death.

The problem, though, since 1E, is that D&D is very good at letting players avoid that fate. The only possible way it could happen is if a PC is not only killed (at which point many players simply cease caring about the character, unless they are high-level), but also dragged away, intact, by the enemies. For that to even happen requires quite a weird set of circumstances.

There are two things that cause this:

1) Necromancers need to cast fancy spells to animate undead (in general), especially powerful ones. Often these are time-consuming and elaborate (I don't think we have any reason to think 5E will differ here, either, but I admit to not looking at this element closely).

2) Virtually all editions of D&D have some kind of "DO NOT RAISE" spell or ritual that a cleric (or even sometimes a non-cleric) can perform on a dead body to make it immune to necromantic fiddlings.

What makes undead scarier than otherwise in a lot of TV and movies is that many of them can "turn" people into undead by injuring them (zombies, vampires), or possess people, but D&D has tended to eschew this, reasonably enough, for gameplay reasons, usually requiring a PC to be actually killed by undead to be raised as one. Again clerics and other classes are typically handed spells to reverse the process, too, if it even exists (cure disease, remove curse, etc.), so those threats are only scary if no-one can cast those spells (no cleric or too low level). If you couldn't just use cleric-magic to cure this kind of thing, and it was more common, it'd be more threatening (I'd suggest it still be cureable, but in a more elaborate way, perhaps requiring perishable materials and/or lengthy rituals or "killing the master").

 

[Sadrik]

Is it so that we had such overexposure to fantasy, that everything feels so normal? Is this all part of "losing the sense of wonder"?

Yes, as you become older more knowledgeable and more jaded, you lose a bit of that unknowable. The unknown is scary.

How would you manage to bring back some scary or disturbing feeling when using undead in your game of D&D?

I think others have touched on this very well. It is really setting up the mythology of undead, and the mythology has to be mostly unknown to the players. Only hinting at things... The "why do they exist" is very important in creating the unsettling nature of undead.

Does 5e give us better tools for such purpose?

Absolutely, tighter math is the key here. Now more levels of undead can be presented as still a challenge. Because of this a swarm of zombies can still be a challenge even to mid and higher level characters. Scaling combat numbers within a tighter scope, this is one of the biggest advantages of 5e imho. It is huge in creating a sense of dread that a zombie can still be effective against mid to high level characters and any other type of monster for that matter (demons, dragons etc.).

 

[Thaumaturge]

You've lost that undead feeling?

A lot of the advice here is good, so I'll just echo it--return a sense of wonder by changing things. Disrupt expectations. Just thinking about it, the next time I use 5e zombies (who regain hitpoints after going to 0 hp sometimes) I might have the zombie fall dead and then rise later, after the combat is "over". Switch up the undead's abilities so that the player's never know quite what to expect.

But for fear, really, once the situation becomes about hitpoint attrition, it becomes "just" another encounter. Maybe have a few instances where the PCs, unable to intervene for some reason, watch the undead slaughter some NPCs. And give the PCs a way to escape but not intervene.

Another piece of the puzzle is probably to opposite of what you want to hear--stop using undead. For a long while avoid all use of undead. Familiarity ruts in the hay until contempt pops out 9 months later, as they say. Take away that familiarity by just not using undead. Then when you bring them back, emphasize the creepiness and use the other techniques people are talking about. But first, and undead fast.

Thaumaturge.

I should probably edit this down to just the last paragraph.

 

[Agamon]

It seems that the players constantly play their PCs in the presence of undead, as if they are just another kind of critters, as in "there's a rat infestation here, let's call a professional to spray some rat poison" -> "there's an undead infestation here, let's call a cleric to spray some Turn Undead". But there should be a huge difference in how people in a fantasy world see rats vs the bodies of dead people crawling out from the tombs!

This is the key here. NPCs are not going to be spooked by rats, but undead should cause them to cower and scream. You can't dictate how the PCs act (and being big damn heroes, they shouldn't be shaking in their booties when something that isn't obviously out of their league crosses their paths, anyway) but you can create an atmosphere with NPC reactions.

Laying off small groups of skeletons and zombies which aren't much of a different fight than some rats would help. Leave these types for the large hordes of shambling dead and just use the more scary ones, ghouls and wights at low level and wraiths, vampires and liches at higher level. These undead can be worrisome, especially if they're more powerful than the PCs.

But, it's a matter of fact that adult players sitting around a table laughing and chugging Mountain Dew aren't going to get scared. It's a game, it's not meant to cause fear.

 

[TheCrankyMage]

Alas my poor XP

Undead were terrifying to players because they could do something much worse than kill you and leave you to make another character (potentially one better equipped to deal with the campaign's challenges since you had the time to figure out what those challenges are): they would take your XP. And not just a little bit. If you were very nearly 16th level and you got level drained, you were back to being in the middle of 14th. And restoration wasn't common or easy to come by. If you adventured and hit 15 on your own in the interim, even if you find a high priest, that's still potentially a million XP (or more!) you're never going to see again. They can decimate a party by taking away your competence. It was even worse when you got level drained but everyone else cowered behind you and now they're all 4 levels above you. Dragons may kill you, but undead could make you suck--a far more terrifying thought to a player.

 

[Li Shenron]

But, it's a matter of fact that adult players sitting around a table laughing and chugging Mountain Dew aren't going to get scared. It's a game, it's not meant to cause fear.

Sure, but sometimes those adults still want to be thrilled... otherwise why would they also enjoy scary movies and rollercoaster rides?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I really haven't looked at 5th enough to see what it's doing with..well...anything...but "player undead ennui" as people have pointed out, results from a combination of overuse and GM undersell. (Like magic.). And as pointed out in the original post, there has been some dilution of powers as well.

There have been plenty suggestions for improving the undersell in this thread. And overuse is something only you can prevent.

The power dilution came about largely as a matter of convenience. Energy Drain is fearsome, but it combines an effect that jeopardizes characters (good for drama and storytelling) with a mechanic that is a pain in the butt to use for all of the players (not good for any reason).

I came up with a solution for this for my 3.X undead: energy drain works by affecting your PC's energy by making a PC Fatigued => Exhausted => Staggered => Unconscious. All the fear & loathing with a fraction of the math.

To clarify- this doesn't happen on 4 consecutive hits. That would be too much, too fast. It needs to be conditional. Some will have it by touch, some by aura. And for some, the ED effect will be minor- only doing the Fatigue step, no more- and duration will vary.

Overall, this system has 4 main advantages I can see: it uses existing game mechanics without really creating much in the way of new substystems, just a new way to use them; the mechanics match the fluff; the danger is real (for any class); the bookkeeping is minimal.

The only trick is rewriting all attacks with ED type effects.

If the 5Ed system- or 4Ed, for that matter- isn't to your liking, give it a try.