D&D 5E Should the Fighter's "Second Wind" ability grant temporary HP instead of regular HP?

[Ruin Explorer]

Based on market position, it is facing a much bigger challenge than 4E with PF already firmly in place plus a fair number of 4E hold-outs. 4E clearly was a master at providing a certain game niche and people who love that niche are well justified in staying there.

I dunno. I think a lot of PF players who were new to PF and really hot about in the 4E days are pretty tired of it or have already moved on to other games, now. There is a hardcore PF-only fanbase, but it's small and loud, not large. With 4E, it's a bit different, but I think there are lots of 4E players/DMs who are ready for another iteration which doesn't entirely screw up stuff they liked from 4E, and which does have other cool stuff. 5E could be that latter.

So I think whilst there may be a lot of semi-entrenched people, it won't face the same sort of "hot" or "aggressive" resistance 4E did (in part because of it's dumb-arse "ur game sux" marketing at the beginning).

Also, hype-wise, 5E is getting WAY MORE hype than 4E did outside the traditional RPG sphere. Far more coverage from mainstream media outlets, from general or even computer-game-specific gaming sites, and so on. It may be behind in the actual RPG sites, right now, but I think way more people in the world who might play will learn about it.

 

[BryonD]

I dunno. I think a lot of PF players who were new to PF and really hot about in the 4E days are pretty tired of it or have already moved on to other games, now. There is a hardcore PF-only fanbase, but it's small and loud, not large.

I don't think we can put numbers on it. It is bigger than 4E faced at launch.

With 4E, it's a bit different, but I think there are lots of 4E players/DMs who are ready for another iteration which doesn't entirely screw up stuff they liked from 4E, and which does have other cool stuff. 5E could be that latter.

So I think whilst there may be a lot of semi-entrenched people, it won't face the same sort of "hot" or "aggressive" resistance 4E did (in part because of it's dumb-arse "ur game sux" marketing at the beginning).

What is "lots"? Define "could be".
And, without comment on bias towards what counts as "entrenched" or "hot", to the extent 5E caters to 4E it will still have the same issue and to the extent it doesn't it could be the edition that *did* screw up stuff they liked from 4E.

Also, hype-wise, 5E is getting WAY MORE hype than 4E did outside the traditional RPG sphere. Far more coverage from mainstream media outlets, from general or even computer-game-specific gaming sites, and so on. It may be behind in the actual RPG sites, right now, but I think way more people in the world who might play will learn about it.

It may have a bigger marketing budget. I don't know. There is a lot less grass roots chatter. I'm not even saying there isn't "a lot".


It all remains to be seen.

 

[Wolfskin]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see 5e trying to take PF fans away by trying to compete with it on the same grounds the same way 4e tried to do. 5e strikes me as a lot less complex system, with fewer character building options and less focus on tactical combat. From my perspective, they're catering to gamers who'd rather play a less fiddly DnD.

 

[BryonD]

Nothing wrong with that.

But they have stated that they want this to be the unifying system that brings people who prefer any prior style together. It is either one or the other.

And, again, if they want more fans they will have to come from somewhere.
There was a lot of talk at the 4E rollout that 4E would gain more fans than it lost because new people would be drawn into the hobby as a whole.
That did not happen.
Yes, new people joined the hobby. But no moreso that during any other edition. The fraction of people who are tabletop gamers has not significantly changed.

Now, you can easily argue that they are looking at old school (pre-3E) holdouts more than 3E/PF holdouts. That could be.
But they didn't say that. They said all.

Regardless, if they want to be the big game again, they need to grow. And growth needs to come from somewhere in the pie.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Yes, new people joined the hobby. But no moreso that during any other edition. The fraction of people who are tabletop gamers has not significantly changed.

I dunno about that, actually. I introduced more people to RPGs via 4E than all other RPGs combined which weren't 2E. People new to RPGs seemed way less intimidated by it when watching us play or the like than 3E - with 3E they were usually like "Er, yeah, no thanks". With 4E, they were all "Can I play? Is it hard?" (Yes, no).

I don't think it was ENOUGH new people to make up to losses to aging, MMORPGs, and so on, but I think it was quite a lot. No proof of course, but you have none either so... eh...

 

[Wolfskin]

I highly doubt they'll be able to unify all fans under the banner of 5e, personally.

For starters, most 4e fans I know are already determined not to like 5e because it's not like 4e (or because it avoids to be too much like 4e), and most OSR fans I know will probably give 5e a shot but stay with their pet retroclones. Several PF fans -though I can't really tell if it's the majority or just a very vocal minority- have a staunch loyalty for Paizo unlike anything I've ever seen for a gaming company (although probably deserved, as PF united 3.5 fans who felt abandoned by WotC with the arrival of 4e).

That leaves us with two different kinds of public: people new to DnD (and I know several rather young gamers who never touched DnD because they think it's too complex for them) and left-behind fans who didn't really fell for the two most recent editions. I think both of these groups are 5e's main target audience, though of course I may be biased because I belong to the latter.

 

[RotGrub]

Mike Mearls stated today that there would be no replacement option
for second wind. That means there will be no official way to play
D&D without inspirational style healing. I realize it's a houserule
but they've decided to support Thaco because that is more
Important??

I'm not supporting a company that is apparently trying to phase
out my playstyle.

I'm going to support a different company. Probably C&C.

Wow I did not read that! At this point you would think it would be obvious to the designers that there are many gamers who don't like inspirational healing. Far more than those demanding thac0 anyway

I think this is an issue that can be solved with a 10 word or less option, it certainly could have made its way into the PHB let along the DMG. It makes me wonder if the entire system is going have inspirational healing hard coded throughout making a simple option infeasible.

 

[Cybit]

Wow I did not read that! At this point you would think it would be obvious to the designers that there are many gamers who don't like inspirational healing. Far more than those demanding thac0 anyway

I think this is an issue that can be solved with a 10 word or less option, it certainly could have made its way into the PHB let along the DMG. It makes me wonder if the entire system is going have inspirational healing hard coded throughout making a simple option infeasible.

Per the playtest data; most people don't actually mind inspirational healing. There are some that do, but many of those folks are not inclined to go with 5E for a variety of other reasons as well.

That said, I don't have any in my game, so take that for what it is worth.

Can we have a moratorium on people talking out of their butt and talking about what the system does or does not have conclusively and making decisions based on the system when NONE OF YOU HAVE THE SYSTEM.

 

[RotGrub]

Per the playtest data; most people don't actually mind inspirational healing. There are some that do, but many of those folks are not inclined to go with 5E for a variety of other reasons as well.

That said, I don't have any in my game, so take that for what it is worth.

Can we have a moratorium on people talking out of their butt and talking about what the system does or does not have conclusively and making decisions based on the system when NONE OF YOU HAVE THE SYSTEM.

If Mearls said there are no options... there are no options... that should be enough to make a decision.

 

[Cybit]

If Mearls said there are no options... there are no options... that should be enough to make a decision.

No replacement option for second wind != alternate versions of second wind.

Second Wind with THP
Second Wind that does something else completely
Second Wind that reduces damage

etc.

Hence my statement about "wait till the dang game comes out before freaking out commences."