Wild Mage Questions

[Grogg of the North]

So I've been looking at the Wild Mage and I've got a few questions. When you become a wild mage, your caster level is reduced by 3 but every time you cast a spell you add 1d6 to your caster level. Does this reduced caster level affect spells per day / spells known? I'm inclined to think that it just affects the variable values in your spell (Range, dice rolled, SR checks) and the sample wild mage in complete arcane tends to support this idea. However, the sample characters are not always a shining example of accuracy. Would it be wrong to assume that all this caster level business works similar to an orange ioun stone?

Also, what would happen if, after rolling the caster level adjustment, your new caster level is less than that required for a spell? For instance a sorcerer casts cone of cold but their rolled caster level is 9, one less than their minimum needed for the spell? Does it fizzle?

 

[Nagol]

We simply used the effective caster level to compute numeric variables like range, damage dice etc. That seems to be the intent. As it says in the class, caster-level affects all level-based variables including penetration. Spells per day are unaffected since the class specifically advances it.

I think applying the effective level as a threshold test is too punitive for spell casters. So if the sorcerer rolls a total of 9 for the effective level, the cone would do 9 dice damage.

 

[captnq]

So I've been looking at the Wild Mage and I've got a few questions. When you become a wild mage, your caster level is reduced by 3 but every time you cast a spell you add 1d6 to your caster level. Does this reduced caster level affect spells per day / spells known? I'm inclined to think that it just affects the variable values in your spell (Range, dice rolled, SR checks) and the sample wild mage in complete arcane tends to support this idea. However, the sample characters are not always a shining example of accuracy. Would it be wrong to assume that all this caster level business works similar to an orange ioun stone?

Also, what would happen if, after rolling the caster level adjustment, your new caster level is less than that required for a spell? For instance a sorcerer casts cone of cold but their rolled caster level is 9, one less than their minimum needed for the spell? Does it fizzle?

Wild Mage

A wild mage casts spells differently from any other arcane spellcaster. She reduces her caster level by 3 for all spells she casts from now on. However, every time she casts a spell, her use of wild magic adds 1d6 to her adjusted caster level.

CASTS. Not IS. It does not effect your actual caster level one iota. It only adjusts the caster level of a spell as being cast.

if your level is adjusted below the point of being able to cast a spell (which is very very rare, but there are a few spells with a minimum caster level), you cannot cast the spell. However, If you cast a fireball and have your CL reduced to 3, you can still cast it, it's just a 3d6 fireball.

Do note, the reason for taking wild mage is for the first level and the first level only. The rest is useless, bordering on dangerous. Why is the first level so awesome? Because your CL becomes RANDOM.

Empower Spell

All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.

What's your caster level in every spell now? Your level -3 +1d6. So you are a 10th level caster. Your level is now 7+1d6. Average is 10.5. But with empower your average level is now 15.75.

Disgusting, isn't it?

I house rule that only the 1d6 is multiplied by the empower, not the whole number, but technically, by RAW, the whole amount is multiplied by 1.5.

BOOM goes the dynamite!

 

[Dandu]

Remember to take Practiced Spellcaster.

 

[Nagol]

Remember to take Practiced Spellcaster.

That does wipe out the -3 beautifully, yep.

 

[captnq]

Technically, practiced spellcaster won't work because the CL is only reduced for the spell itself. His CL is still X, not X-3. the CL for the spell, and the spell alone is -3. The Feat only helps you if your base CL is reduced.

Addendum: Doesn't mean it might not get past a DM who doesn't think it through, however. Wouldn't get past me, but might someone else.

 

[Nagol]

Technically, practiced spellcaster won't work because the CL is only reduced for the spell itself. His CL is still X, not X-3. the CL for the spell, and the spell alone is -3. The Feat only helps you if your base CL is reduced.

Addendum: Doesn't mean it might not get past a DM who doesn't think it through, however. Wouldn't get past me, but might someone else.

Not true. 'A wild mage reduces her caster level by 3 for all spells she casts from now on.' Page 69, Complete Arcane.

What wouldn't work is trying to use empower to affect caster level. Empower only affects spell numeric variables. Caster level is an input that helps define those variables -- it is not one itself.

 

[captnq]

Not true. 'A wild mage reduces her caster level by 3 for all spells she casts from now on.' Page 69, Complete Arcane.

What wouldn't work is trying to use empower to affect caster level. Empower only affects spell numeric variables. Caster level is an input that helps define those variables -- it is not one itself.

Wild mage

A wild mage reduces her caster level by 3 for all spells she casts from now on

Practiced Spellcaster

Your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class increases by 4.

See the difference?

One effects your spells, one effects YOU.

Empower spell

All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.

Wild mage makes all your spells have a random variable. Empower affects all random variables on a spell. Nothing about wild mage reduces your CL in regards to your HD. When NOT casting spells, your HD is unchanced and your caster level is unchanged.

Practiced Spellcaster increases my CL up to my HD, for my spellcasting CLASS. Wild Mage reduces my CL for the SPELL, but leaves my spellcasting class alone. Two different things.

Sorry. RAW is quite clear. However, as I said, it LOOKS like it should work, and you should totally try to get it past your DM as a player. As a DM, I'd never allow it.

 

[Nagol]

Wild mage

Practiced Spellcaster


See the difference?

One effects your spells, one effects YOU.

Empower spell


Wild mage makes all your spells have a random variable. Empower affects all random variables on a spell. Nothing about wild mage reduces your CL in regards to your HD. When NOT casting spells, your HD is unchanced and your caster level is unchanged.

Practiced Spellcaster increases my CL up to my HD, for my spellcasting CLASS. Wild Mage reduces my CL for the SPELL, but leaves my spellcasting class alone. Two different things.

Sorry. RAW is quite clear. However, as I said, it LOOKS like it should work, and you should totally try to get it past your DM as a player. As a DM, I'd never allow it.

Actually, what we allowed was Practiced Spellcaster was applied last so only came into effect if you rolled less than 3. It looked like a good compromise.

As for Wild Mage increasing the random variables of spells. It doesn't. It means you cast the spells with random levels of power behind them. The random variables are defined inside the spell and Wild Mage does nothing to the spell description to introduce more random effect. It increases the expected variation of a casting but not the variability of the spell. See the difference?

 

[captnq]

Actually, what we allowed was Practiced Spellcaster was applied last so only came into effect if you rolled less than 3. It looked like a good compromise.

As for Wild Mage increasing the random variables of spells. It doesn't. It means you cast the spells with random levels of power behind them. The random variables are defined inside the spell and Wild Mage does nothing to the spell description to introduce more random effect. It increases the expected variation of a casting but not the variability of the spell. See the difference?

If you want to run it that way, that's cool.

But that's not how it reads. RAW is RAW. you might feel it's different. You might have different house rules that lead you conclude things a certain way. But wild mage changes the SPELL. Empower and Maximize affect random values as the spell is cast, not as it's memorized.

Does Wild Mage Change the spellcaster or the spell?

I claim the spell. YOU claim the spellcaster. My claim is based on it states SPELL in the PrC Class feature and not Spellcaster.

PHB Glossary:

caster level: A measure of the power with which a spellcaster casts a spell. Generally, a spell’s caster level is the spellcaster’s class level.

Caster level doesn't even exist until you cast something. It's determined as you cast a spell. GENERALLY it is equal to your class level. It could be all sorts of numbers, but that's usually what it is. In this case, the number is random.

Wild mage Class ability is quite clear, it modifies the CL of a Spell.

Now, if you are telling me, and can prove, that Caster Level is NOT a numerical value of all spells, then I will conceed that it cannot be made into a variable value, and therefore, is not subject to empower or maximize.

Now, again, I can see how close it can appear that Practiced spellcaster should work for this. But then I have to ask, If I get hit with a penalty to my caster level, say, a curse of -6 to CL, would practiced spellcaster work against that?

I'm saying no.

However, even if you can't benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain Hit Dice in levels of nonspellcasting classes, you might be able to apply the rest of the bonus.

Once you take the feat, its DONE. It will change only, and ONLY when you gain more HD. It does NOT change every time your CL changes. The -3 to your caster level is ONLY when casting spells, not ALL the time. I know that seems illogical, but lets say you were doing something involving your caster level, but it had nothing to do with spells. Say, crafting a magic item that required no spells, just craft arms and armor, for example.

Your CL is not -3. Your CL is your Arcane Caster levels. So if I'm a 9th level wild mage crafting a +3 sword, I can do it, because I meet the CL requirement. By YOUR view, I could only craft a +2 Sword, because my CL is -3.