D&D 5E Dear WotC: D&D 5, Hero Lab, and the OGL

[wedgeski]

I have no particular fire in my belly for the OGL, but I would like to see open and inclusive licensing terms for 5E, so that the things I want to try and do with it are possible.

Wedgeski
Counting for 41 years and counting

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This thread has made me feel delightfully youthful and fresh-faced. It was like a trip to the spa!

As for HeroLabs, well, let's be real - competition is extremely good for software development. I like the cut of the jib of the guys working on the current 5E digital offerings, but competition can only improve their offerings, so I really hope WotC enables that competition, even if not for a few months.

I certainly won't be buying much for 5E unless it has solid digital support, but I don't really care who provides it.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Personally, I think the priority has to be licensing for third parties to produce adventures and whatnot (not that it really matters because it can easily be done under the OGL). Anything relating to electronic products like Hero Lab really isn't that important particularly as that has already been outsourced to a group that seem to be doing a good job of it. Getting the support of third parties like Necromancer is, to me at least, the number one priority.

If you have a message for WotC, please send it to WotC. They have their own message boards and e-mail addresses. EN World is not some official WotC communication dead-drop, or the like.

C'mon, Umbran, these sorts of posts have been made since ENWorld first started. This place effectively is a dead drop for WotC... in large part because their own boards have a Mos Eisley-like reputation.

 

[Thaumaturge]

You're supposed to say "and counting." Don't make Thaumaturge angry.

Yes. If we are going to have a thread theme for ending our posts, the theme must be followed! Except in cases where it is modified for comedic effect, of course.

Edit: For tyops.

And I've tried Hero Lab a few times. I've never been as impressed as I'd like to be.

D&D player who is 37 years and counting

Thaumaturge.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Personally, I think the priority has to be licensing for third parties to produce adventures and whatnot (not that it really matters because it can easily be done under the OGL). Anything relating to electronic products like Hero Lab really isn't that important particularly as that has already been outsourced to a group that seem to be doing a good job of it. Getting the support of third parties like Necromancer is, to me at least, the number one priority.

Personally, I think this is not the best attitude.

I do agree that Trapdoor seem to be doing a good job, but you know what, pretty much every company producing digital stuff for D&D has seemed to do a good job until the stuff actually came out. It seemed like 4E was going to have vastly better digital support than it actually did, and it seemed like 4E's support was going to be more timely than it actually was.

Without an OGL to promote some form of competition (because WotC have been pretty aggressive in the digital realm when it comes to non-official stuff that actually does anything), we are effectively walking into a monopoly situation, just as with 4E, where there is little/no reason to provide a really great product, because you know people who want a digital product have no choice but to accept what you offer or have nothing.

That doesn't benefit the consumer, and in the longer-term, it doesn't even benefit WotC, I'd suggest.

You say getting the 3PP adventure publishers on board is #1 priority, and maybe it is, but the next priority of after that really has to be to allow others to produce viable software for 5E. Either way, the delaying of the OGL to next year, whilst understandable on a certain level, looks like it may potentially mean neither thing happens in a timely fashion.

 

[KarinsDad]

Personally, I think this is not the best attitude.

I do agree that Trapdoor seem to be doing a good job, but you know what, pretty much every company producing digital stuff for D&D has seemed to do a good job until the stuff actually came out. It seemed like 4E was going to have vastly better digital support than it actually did, and it seemed like 4E's support was going to be more timely than it actually was.

Without an OGL to promote some form of competition (because WotC have been pretty aggressive in the digital realm when it comes to non-official stuff that actually does anything), we are effectively walking into a monopoly situation, just as with 4E, where there is little/no reason to provide a really great product, because you know people who want a digital product have no choice but to accept what you offer or have nothing.

That doesn't benefit the consumer, and in the longer-term, it doesn't even benefit WotC, I'd suggest.

You say getting the 3PP adventure publishers on board is #1 priority, and maybe it is, but the next priority of after that really has to be to allow others to produce viable software for 5E. Either way, the delaying of the OGL to next year, whilst understandable on a certain level, looks like it may potentially mean neither thing happens in a timely fashion.

While I agree with your sentiment, I do think that 5E will be a lot easier to create PCs with than 4E.

I can probably ignore the 5E tools for a long time and just create a simple spreadsheet for PC sheets that will handle the job.

With regard to feats, magic items, and monsters, again, the PHB, DMG, and Monster Manual will probably suit me just fine for a long time without the need for electronic assistance. If I get them in PDF format, then I have most of the electronic assistance I need.

WotC should be putting out excellent tools because I for one will not use them if they are not good (and hence, one less subscription), and I might not even purchase a lot of the additional source material if WotC is not going to have excellent tool support. I can probably play with the core 3 for a long time.

In today's internet and phone and laptop and tablet age, WotC had better get on the stick this time around, or they might end up losing even more market share. It would like shooting themselves in the foot (not that they have never done that before).

 

[Horacio]

Let's give them some time, people...

I agree it would be better to have an OGL-like licence from the beginning, but look at the bright side, we already have a free as in beer D&D Basic.
I hope than in six months we will also have it free as in speech, with a nice open licence. They are not fools, they klnow that if they
don't do it, somebody else will do, using old SDR and OGL, and they know that it's better to craft a favourable licence that to suffer clones.

And if I'm wrong, in six months we will have Jails and Jackalopes Next OGL, "fully compatible with the last version of the most popular fantasy
RPG", and problem will solve itself...

My 2 eurocents...

Horacio
D&D gamer
38 years and counting

 

[Ruin Explorer]

While I agree with your sentiment, I do think that 5E will be a lot easier to create PCs with than 4E.

I can probably ignore the 5E tools for a long time and just create a simple spreadsheet for PC sheets that will handle the job.

That's not my point, though. It's not whether you desperately need them to calculate stuff (hint: you didn't in 4E - the calculations were far more simple than 3.XE, because the stacking rules were more simple), it's whether it's convenient and something people want.

With 4E it was massively convenient to have all the PCs online, in an attractive, easy-to-use interface that the players could use to update and level up their characters, and that the DM or whoever could print out from as required. I can't overstate the utility of that.

I know I could create some Dropbox account with a spreadsheet and so on, but there's no way half my players (who won't even have PHBs, in my experience) will be able to update their own characters and so on between sessions (and I know they also did stuff like add pictures, bio details and so on) with that.

With regard to feats, magic items, and monsters, again, the PHB, DMG, and Monster Manual will probably suit me just fine for a long time without the need for electronic assistance. If I get them in PDF format, then I have most of the electronic assistance I need.

WotC should be putting out excellent tools because I for one will not use them if they are not good (and hence, one less subscription), and I might not even purchase a lot of the additional source material if WotC is not going to have excellent tool support. I can probably play with the core 3 for a long time.

In today's internet and phone and laptop and tablet age, WotC had better get on the stick this time around, or they might end up losing even more market share. It would like shooting themselves in the foot (not that they have never done that before).

Indeed. I'm not sure I'll even get the MM or DMG if it doesn't look like Trapdoor's stuff is coming along nicely and due to for at least some sort of "early access" release by the time the DMG comes out (or shortly thereafter). I want good digital support. I like physical books for reading at home, but I'm not going to back to lugging 3+ huge-ass hardbacks around (and 5E's are really huge!), and I want digital tools that make my life easy, rather than making me wonder if I should live nearer the photocopier place...

 

[Thaumaturge]

I want good digital support. I like physical books for reading at home, but I'm not going to back to lugging 3+ huge-ass hardbacks around (and 5E's are really huge!), and I want digital tools that make my life easy, rather than making me wonder if I should live nearer the photocopier place...

It's funny. For the vast majority of my play experience I prefer physical books. But once or twice a year, I attend a convention. And having all of my necessary rule books available on an iPad instead of lugging 2 or 3 books just so I can play makes a huge difference in my con experience. Huge enough that I buy pdfs, or use character management apps, when available.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

Personally, I think this is not the best attitude. (snip) That doesn't benefit the consumer, and in the longer-term, it doesn't even benefit WotC, I'd suggest.

You say getting the 3PP adventure publishers on board is #1 priority, and maybe it is, but the next priority of after that really has to be to allow others to produce viable software for 5E. Either way, the delaying of the OGL to next year, whilst understandable on a certain level, looks like it may potentially mean neither thing happens in a timely fashion.

Actually, I say "(p)ersonally ... I think" rather than some sort of emphatic pontification and I am also writing from the perspective of someone with no interest in the new edition other than buying new adventures to run with 4E, 13th Age, or even Savage Worlds.

What I would like to see, though, is for the official version of D&D to succeed and I think the most important part of that is to get adventures and whatnot published by 3PPs because it does seem to contribute to sales of the core books published by WotC.

Also these sorts of products can be done relatively quickly - particularly PDF releases - whereas decent electronic tools take a while to get written, tested, rewritten, retested, etc.... And, as WotC has shown, even half-arsed electronic tools can take forever.

My post was simply about being very pragmatic: What's going to give 5E a good marketing boost in the short-term? I think the answer is getting the 3PP community on-side.

Plus it will give some options to the WotC staffers who get laid off this December....