D&D 5E Advice on replacing druid shapeshifting?

[sunrisekid]

In a sense, it’s like the Druid becomes a sub-Ranger but augmenting Ranger spells with Druid Spells (plus the other stuff you mention). Ok, that’s easy enough for me to wrap my head around and explain in one sentence to a player. Thank you, Gargoyle, enjoy that XP.

 

[Kobold Stew]

In 3.5 my favourite variant was a non-shapeshifting druid -- this was the Druid that I wanted most to play.

Here.

I think it would be fairly easy to implement:
* Druid loses wild shaping and all armour and shield proficiencies
* Druid gains unarmored defense and (at level 2) unarmored movement (as per Monk)
* Druid gains favored enemy and (at level 3) primeval awareness (as per Ranger)

I think that it would be easy to tweak from there.

 

[Haffrung]

Really? Shapeshifting spell casters are a classic fantasy trope. 4e was an exception, and I have no idea what the 5d Druid spell list looks like, but in earlier editions with shape shifting, weather control, and funky spells like flaming sphere and good berries the Druid made a better Merlin that D&Ds wizard ever did.

In AD&D, Druids don't get shape shifting until level 8. That's high-level in AD&D - almost a level cap reward.

Like the OP, I might houserule Druids out as a playable class. Nature priests with animal pets are one thing. Characters that can change into animals right off the hop are another.

 

[Mouseferatu]

In AD&D, Druids don't get shape shifting until level 8. That's high-level in AD&D - almost a level cap reward.

Like the OP, I might houserule Druids out as a playable class. Nature priests with animal pets are one thing. Characters that can change into animals right off the hop are another.

Y'know... If the objection is that the druid gets Wild Shape too soon, as opposed to getting it at all...

Treat it almost as a prestige class. Take the nature cleric, but have him draw from the druid spell list instead of the cleric's. Then, once he's hit 3rd (or 5th, or whatever), let him multiclass intro druid, but keep the spell progression going as though he was a single class caster. Basically, he's a druid from the get-go in terms of spells, but a cleric for the first few levels of class features.

 

[sunrisekid]

Y'know... If the objection is that the druid gets Wild Shape too soon, as opposed to getting it at all...

In 4E does the Druid gain shapechanging closer to paragon level? Maybe that's what I'll have, by 11th level the Druid immediately gains all shapeshifting powers retroactively. Circle of the Moon remains unavailable.

After all, by the time characters are being challenged by trans-dimensional planeswalking monsters I have much less issue with a character that can transform into a bear, or whatever.

 

[Vael]

In 4E does the Druid gain shapechanging closer to paragon level? Maybe that's what I'll have, by 11th level the Druid immediately gains all shapeshifting powers retroactively. Circle of the Moon remains unavailable.

4e Druids get wildshape at first level, and it's even more unlimited than in 5e.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I dislike at-will shapeshifting of the new Druid. Are there are any fair ways of replacing that feature with something else?

Depends on what you dislike about it. The utility (disguising yourself as an animal, gaining movement modes or save environments)? The combat effectiveness? The concept of changing shape at low level?

I’m the DM for our group and I prefer to run a grim, sword & sorcery style game. The shapeshifting druid is of a different feel and I’d like to disallow it but still want to keep players happy.

You might not want to have anyone casting spells or, at least, not overtly using magic, from 1st level, if that's the tone you're going for. Maybe consider allowing Rangers and Eldritch Knights as the only casters? That way, everyone's reasonably tough, resorts mainly to weapons in battle, and magic isn't a ready, plentiful, resource at all levels.

 

[sunrisekid]

Depends on what you dislike about it. The utility (disguising yourself as an animal, gaining movement modes or save environments)? The combat effectiveness? The concept of changing shape at low level?

That stuff is balanced for low-level; and compared to clerics channeling godly intent or wizards shooting fire, the druid is not that outlandish.

The deeper reticence, as with below, is that it makes it a bit harder for me to limit player options. For comparable reasons, I've taken to blocking Teleport and Fly spells (and similar others) so that characters can't simply "fly away from their problems". Druids turning into a bird and flying past a challenge is comparable. Or Eladrin-style teleports. I like the idea the prisons are actually hard to escape, perhaps even for seasoned adventures. So many adventures have been written along the theme of escape; advanced magic can easily bypass that. Recall the "6E" houserules from a few years back, that's the reasoning I follow. However, that's tempered by having to compromise with my limited player base.

You might not want to have anyone casting spells or, at least, not overtly using magic, from 1st level, if that's the tone you're going for. Maybe consider allowing Rangers and Eldritch Knights as the only casters? That way, everyone's reasonably tough, resorts mainly to weapons in battle, and magic isn't a ready, plentiful, resource at all levels.

Much as I'd like to play that sort of game, my players are more interested in trying out everything available. Which is good because it keeps them interested in playing but at the end of the day I started this gaming group to play a particular kind of game. If it resembles only a little of what you described then I'll settle for that.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The deeper reticence, as with below, is that it makes it a bit harder for me to limit player options. For comparable reasons, I've taken to blocking Teleport and Fly spells (and similar others) so that characters can't simply "fly away from their problems". Druids turning into a bird and flying past a challenge is comparable.

OK, sure, that makes sense. You could keep Wildshape, then, and just remove the forms that allow the druid to change movement modes and environments - maybe replacing them with just slightly more potent-in-combat forms, all about human-sized land mammals.

Much as I'd like to play that sort of game, my players are more interested in trying out everything available. Which is good because it keeps them interested in playing but at the end of the day I started this gaming group to play a particular kind of game. If it resembles only a little of what you described then I'll settle for that.

One of the issues with D&D magic is that it gets very versatile, very fast. Even low-level spells can have a profound impact in an otherwise low-magic world. You /could/ try using the multi-classing rules, and ban caster classes from the first few levels ("Tier 1" is now officially 1-4th) - on the theory that magic is just harder to learn. That would delay the introduction of disruptive spells/abilities, and it would mean trying out more classes and options.

 

[sunrisekid]

One of the issues with D&D magic is that it gets very versatile, very fast. Even low-level spells can have a profound impact in an otherwise low-magic world. You /could/ try using the multi-classing rules, and ban caster classes from the first few levels ("Tier 1" is now officially 1-4th) - on the theory that magic is just harder to learn. That would delay the introduction of disruptive spells/abilities, and it would mean trying out more classes and options.

I like where you're going with this. Personally, I've never liked the traditional multiclass system of bolting one class onto another because it feels arbitrary and min-max-y to me. The approach of 4E, limited multiclassing through feats, feels more organic or natural. There is a hint of this in the 5E beta playtest and some of it in the current batch of feats, and maybe we'll see more in the DMG.

This is the approach that I will be taking with my players. If there isn't already a class (ie, the spellcasting variant already in the PHB) then try to take a feat/background combo that will play into whatever idea they are trying to articulate for their character.

Personal preference, again, but what I like about lower-magic games is that when magic "happens" it is more significant. Along this sense, limiting the party to only ever 1 of the optional races is a step towards keeping those races special in the game (ie, of the optional races in the PHB the party can only ever have 1 in game). Similarly, a character that can transform into any natural beast ought to be the Elder Forest King, or whatever, rather than Sapling Initiate, if you get my drift.