Astrosicebear
First Post
There needs to be a distinction between EPIC and ASCENDED. I view them as two sides of the same coin. One does not need to be epic to be ascended.
D&D 5E How would you handle EPIC levels?
- Thread starter Astrosicebear
- Start date
S
Sunseeker
Guest
One need not be epic-level, no. You still need to feel pretty epic IMO in order to be ascended. Ascended adventurers fighting ascended kobolds seems....not very epic IMO.
aramis erak
Legend
For Epic Levels, I'd prefer a reduced set of post-20 trees... say, 10 levels 3 or 4 classes
One martial, one magical, one ability . No bonus to hit points/hit dice, but recovery of HD does improve, and so does PB, at the same rate as the table. Gaining Epic levels requires a quest and 100,000 XP outside the quest, and the character gains no XP while on the quest; with a prerequisite of Character level 20.
In order to gain EL 1, you must have an immortal/deity patron. To gain this requires a total of 500,000 XP, and a quest assigned by a high priest of their church/cult.
At EL 11, one becomes a demigod
Martial Hero
Each level, Pick one of:
Magical Hero
Each level pick one of:
ECL 4: regain a second level or lower slot at short rest
ECL 6: regain a 3rd level or lower slot at short rest
ECL 8: regain a 4th level or lower slot at short rest
ECL 10: regain a 5th level or lower slot at short rest.
If this Epic Class taken by non-spellcasters, they gain 1 cantrip and 1 1st level spell slot, and pick one class's spell list to work from, knowing 1+Ability Modifier spells, as their ECL 1 pick.
Ability Hero
Each level, pick one of
ECL 6: Ability score improvement or feat, maximum ability score 22
ECL 9: ability score improvement or feat, maximum ability score 23
ECL 10: Ability score improvement, maximum ability score 24
One martial, one magical, one ability . No bonus to hit points/hit dice, but recovery of HD does improve, and so does PB, at the same rate as the table. Gaining Epic levels requires a quest and 100,000 XP outside the quest, and the character gains no XP while on the quest; with a prerequisite of Character level 20.
In order to gain EL 1, you must have an immortal/deity patron. To gain this requires a total of 500,000 XP, and a quest assigned by a high priest of their church/cult.
At EL 11, one becomes a demigod
Martial Hero
Each level, Pick one of:
- One additional reaction per turn
- 1 point of damage reduction (to minimum of 1 damage when hit) from melee attacks of Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing.
- 1 point of damage reduction (to minimum of 1 damage when hit) from ranged attacks of Bludgeoning, Slashing, or Piercing.
- One extra use of a X uses per (long/short) rest feature.
- One weapon gains a die type improvement d4-d6-d8-d10-d12; a weapon at D12 cannot take this, and the same weapon may not be improved twice.
- extra damage from class features adds Con Bonus.
Magical Hero
Each level pick one of:
- Bonus Spell Slot of no higher than Magical Hero Epic Class Level; if slot of less than half MHECL, gain two such slots. For warlocks, this is a separate, once per long rest slot, but otherwise treated as a warlock slot.
- 1 point of damage reduction (to minimum of one point taken) when hit with spell damage.
- at ecl2+: One spell becomes mastered, always memorized, not counting against limit of memorized spells, and can be cast once per long rest at minimum spell level.
ECL2-3: level 1
ECL4-5: level 1-2
ECL6-7: level 1-3
ECL8-9: Level 1-4 - One additional cantrip of choice
- 2 additional spells known
- 1 additional preparation slot
ECL 4: regain a second level or lower slot at short rest
ECL 6: regain a 3rd level or lower slot at short rest
ECL 8: regain a 4th level or lower slot at short rest
ECL 10: regain a 5th level or lower slot at short rest.
If this Epic Class taken by non-spellcasters, they gain 1 cantrip and 1 1st level spell slot, and pick one class's spell list to work from, knowing 1+Ability Modifier spells, as their ECL 1 pick.
Ability Hero
Each level, pick one of
- Tool Mastery: one tool proficiency gains +1 on all checks; no tool can be taken twice
- Skill Mastery: one skill proficiency gains +1 on all checks; no skill can be taken twice
- gain one skill proficiency
- Lore: one area of lore gains +1 on all checks; no area can be taken twice. This does stack with skill mastery.
- Tool Specialization: one narrow area of a tool proficiency gains a +1 on all checks; no tool make be taken more than once. This does stack with tool mastery. Examples: Thieves' Tools might be picking door locks, removing needle traps, or jamming triggers.
- Skill Specialization: one narrow area of a skill proficiency gains a +1 on all checks; no one skill may be taken more than once. This stacks with skill mastery. Examples: Athletics might be either climbing, or swimming.
ECL 6: Ability score improvement or feat, maximum ability score 22
ECL 9: ability score improvement or feat, maximum ability score 23
ECL 10: Ability score improvement, maximum ability score 24
steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
To continue...
Epic Rank 7 [next rank at E,000,000 XP] : Moderate Power
You gain the following Epic Aspect:
Godly Might: Your divinity can not be denied by any in the cosmos. Any successful attack or spell effect made by you automatically deals maximum damage against Demigod rank or lesser creatures. Additionally, in the case of mortal creatures, a save [DC: tbd] is required to avoid being slain on the spot.
-You can now transit yourself and others (up to your Epic Rank individuals) anywhere in the Inner or Outer Planes, at will. Those traveling with you suffer no ill effects from hostile atmospheric or environmental conditions. Unwilling travellers receive a save roll [DC: tbd.]
-You can, one per round, at will, use any Divine spell of level 1-7.
You may select one Epic Feature of Moderate Power or lesser status:
Moderate Power Features
-You primary weapon/item becomes enchanted +5.
-You can bestow Divine spells of level 6-7 upon those you deem worthy. You must possess the Demigod Feature to bestow spell levels 1-3 and the Lesser Power Feature to bestow spell levels 4-5 before taking this feature.
-You can summon Immortal or lesser [mortal] beings [not demigods or higher] and any non-magical item to your presence, at will.
-Your touch makes any mundane weapon/item a +2 enchanted weapon/item, permanently. The nature of the weapon's/item's enchantments is left to the player.
-You can see/find any Immortal or lesser beings anywhere on the Prime Material Plane, unless they are shrouded by artifact/Immortal rank or better means.
-You have immunity to weapons of +2 or lesser enchantment.
Epic Rank 8 [next rank at F,000,000 XP] : Moderate Power
Epic Aspect: Deific Domain: You may select an additional area of mortal life to include in your godly portfolio.
You may select one Epic Feature of Moderate Power or lesser status.
Epic Rank 9 [next rank at G,000,000 XP] : Greater Power
You gain the following Epic Aspect:
Divine Creation: You are a major force in the [mortal] world and among your fellow deities. You can, at will, create and breathe [mortal] life into free-willed creatures over which you hold sway, e.g., a Greater Power worshiped by dwarves could "make" whole or cause to be born a [real, living, individual] dwarf.
-In addition to empowering individuals with clerical and/or paladinic powers (if the Power so chooses), you can elevate a being you deem worthy to Immortal status.
-You can, one per round, at will, use any Divine spell of any level.
You may select one Epic Feature of Greater Power or lesser status:
Greater Power Features
-You primary weapon/item can not be used/will not function for any being but yourself. Like the similar Lesser Power Feature, the nature of this "refusal" is left to the player or DM.
-You can bestow Divine spells of any level upon those you deem worthy. You must possess the Demigod, Lesser, & Moderate Power Features to bestow spell levels 1-7 before taking this feature.
-You have immunity to damage from weapons of +3.
Epic Rank 10 [next rank at H,000,000 XP] : Greater Power
Epic Aspect:
Omnipotence: You have complete control over the realities of your areas of Deific Domain and can create an produce them in new worlds. You are a major force in the [mortal] world and among your fellow deities with complete control over the realities of your Deific Domain. You are capable of altering the reality, on any plane, of items or beings related to your Domains, e.g., a Power of the oceans can create tsunamis, produce or deplete fish populations, fashion citadels at the bottom of the sea, move/change a coastline, etc... This aspect can not effect the reality of Immortal or higher powers: a Power of the seas can not simply "delete" an immortal/primordial sea monster from existence, for example.
You may select one Epic Feature of Greater Power or lesser status.
Epic Rank 7 [next rank at E,000,000 XP] : Moderate Power
You gain the following Epic Aspect:
Godly Might: Your divinity can not be denied by any in the cosmos. Any successful attack or spell effect made by you automatically deals maximum damage against Demigod rank or lesser creatures. Additionally, in the case of mortal creatures, a save [DC: tbd] is required to avoid being slain on the spot.
-You can now transit yourself and others (up to your Epic Rank individuals) anywhere in the Inner or Outer Planes, at will. Those traveling with you suffer no ill effects from hostile atmospheric or environmental conditions. Unwilling travellers receive a save roll [DC: tbd.]
-You can, one per round, at will, use any Divine spell of level 1-7.
You may select one Epic Feature of Moderate Power or lesser status:
Moderate Power Features
-You primary weapon/item becomes enchanted +5.
-You can bestow Divine spells of level 6-7 upon those you deem worthy. You must possess the Demigod Feature to bestow spell levels 1-3 and the Lesser Power Feature to bestow spell levels 4-5 before taking this feature.
-You can summon Immortal or lesser [mortal] beings [not demigods or higher] and any non-magical item to your presence, at will.
-Your touch makes any mundane weapon/item a +2 enchanted weapon/item, permanently. The nature of the weapon's/item's enchantments is left to the player.
-You can see/find any Immortal or lesser beings anywhere on the Prime Material Plane, unless they are shrouded by artifact/Immortal rank or better means.
-You have immunity to weapons of +2 or lesser enchantment.
Epic Rank 8 [next rank at F,000,000 XP] : Moderate Power
Epic Aspect: Deific Domain: You may select an additional area of mortal life to include in your godly portfolio.
You may select one Epic Feature of Moderate Power or lesser status.
Epic Rank 9 [next rank at G,000,000 XP] : Greater Power
You gain the following Epic Aspect:
Divine Creation: You are a major force in the [mortal] world and among your fellow deities. You can, at will, create and breathe [mortal] life into free-willed creatures over which you hold sway, e.g., a Greater Power worshiped by dwarves could "make" whole or cause to be born a [real, living, individual] dwarf.
-In addition to empowering individuals with clerical and/or paladinic powers (if the Power so chooses), you can elevate a being you deem worthy to Immortal status.
-You can, one per round, at will, use any Divine spell of any level.
You may select one Epic Feature of Greater Power or lesser status:
Greater Power Features
-You primary weapon/item can not be used/will not function for any being but yourself. Like the similar Lesser Power Feature, the nature of this "refusal" is left to the player or DM.
-You can bestow Divine spells of any level upon those you deem worthy. You must possess the Demigod, Lesser, & Moderate Power Features to bestow spell levels 1-7 before taking this feature.
-You have immunity to damage from weapons of +3.
Epic Rank 10 [next rank at H,000,000 XP] : Greater Power
Epic Aspect:
Omnipotence: You have complete control over the realities of your areas of Deific Domain and can create an produce them in new worlds. You are a major force in the [mortal] world and among your fellow deities with complete control over the realities of your Deific Domain. You are capable of altering the reality, on any plane, of items or beings related to your Domains, e.g., a Power of the oceans can create tsunamis, produce or deplete fish populations, fashion citadels at the bottom of the sea, move/change a coastline, etc... This aspect can not effect the reality of Immortal or higher powers: a Power of the seas can not simply "delete" an immortal/primordial sea monster from existence, for example.
You may select one Epic Feature of Greater Power or lesser status.
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Young Hercules: Ascended Non-Epic
Batman: Nonascended Epic
That's one of my gripes. You can be Epic and not a deimgod of a deity's chosen or favorite. There is no need to become magical outright.
You could go the Mental route and either learn a lot of arcane spells, secrets, and alter what you already know or you could simply gain a mastery in a large host of skills, arts, and instrument and tools. This can go to the point that you might invent new thing entirely. Or you can go the Physical route and imply master what you know to near perfect execution on demand.
Epic should not be just Demigods and Chosen.
steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
Hmmm. This is a valid point. There are two routes to go with Epic play...which leads me to wonder...
Are they compatible?
That is. Can you play an Epic D&D game of "Super PCs" (Batman Epic) hanging out/"adventuring" with God PCs (Hercules Epic)? Is that doable or does D&D have to pick one and stick to it?
Of course. It took us 30 years to get the best swordsman in the Land to hang with Dude who drops Meteor Showers.
The issue is scale. Let them grow and rule break at the same speed. Don't let the God PCs burst all the limitations all at once.
If you do it right, it would take a long while before you have to either go full Amadues Cho or up, killed the PC off, or wonder why they haven't ascended or been killed off by a deity or fifty.
steeldragons
Steeliest of the dragons
mmmmmmyeaaah. I guess it just seems like that's a really convenient/easy thing to say. But how does it work in practice? How do you get the mortal/epic batman guy to "grow and rule break at the same speed" as the guy on the road to divinity?
Normal Epic guy isn't going to get all of the special godly stuff. As amazing and awesome and extra skills and classes and magic items and whatever else as he can be, he's never going to be "magic/divine/supernatural/immortal." He can "keep up" maybe to an extent, for a time, I guess. Even Batman can get a shot in on Darkseid every once in, like, a great great while...with surprise/sneak attack...and explosives...but I'm not seeing how they would really ever be able to stay on the same page to carry out an "Epic campaign" in D&D.
The same way fighters and wizards work. Or how superheroes teams work.
The demigod might be able to lift a ton, breath underwater, leap 50t upwards from standing and run 100 ft a turn.
But none of that is getting you close to Orcus' number 1 henchman.
But Tricksy McScams the epic Con Artist speaks fluent Abyssal, has expertise in Deception, Religion, Persuasion, and Disguise kits can reroll his failures, and can twist the truth to be a lie inside of a zone of truth with no preparation because he can lie so good that the Foresight spell can't predict his actions and telepathy is all lies...
...lies his ways all the way to his office.
"I have an important meeting with the guy in charge. I have 3 heroes of legendary renown tied up with magic rope made of Odin's beard.... Wait?! Fine, read my thoughts.... See. Nothing hidden... What. A zone of truth too? What's your names? I need to tell Orcus who is DELAYING OUR MEETING FORETOLD BY THE PHOPHETS OF GLASSA THREE THOUSAND YEARS AGO IN THE BOOKS OF AGU-NAMAMA. Notice the red hair, right. Passed that test too... sneak attack dagger in the heart. Magic only works on magic. I'm so good I fool myself. You dead, fool. You dead forever."
EDIT:
For Example the way I see it working is epic destinies like:
Avatar of Rage
- gains rage
- can enter Primal Rages which grant special features when raging (Infectious Rages, increase lifting, immunity to certain magics, deafening and terrifying rages).
Archmage:
- gets more spells known or adds spells to spellbook with each epic level
- gets High Arcana which allows the archmage to burn low level spells lots for "metamagic"
Deadly Trickster
- gets expertise in several skills (Acrobatics, Deception, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth ) and tools (thieves' tools, disguise kit, forgery kit)
- gets Epic Tricks which remove limits to skill use.
Demigod
- raises the cap of ability scores slightly (25?)
- gets Divine Abilities
Grandmaster of Flowers
- gains Ki and Ki regeneration
- gets Epic Martial Arts which allows incredible feats via Ki
Legendary Dreadnaught
- gets proficient with all armor and weapons
- gets expertise with some skills (Animal Handing, Athletics, Intimidate and Perception)
- gets Epic Exploits with removes skill and combat restrictions (jump farther, swim against currents, hear butterflies, lift and grapple anything)
Mostly lateral growth.
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