D&D 5E Is the Tarrasque tough enough?

[Particle_Man]

Well according to the monster encounter builder, the Tarrasque should be a deadly encounter for 6 level 20 PCs (a large but not unreasonably sized party - I am DMing 7 PCs right now).

So we could try statting up a 20th level party: Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue, Warlock and Bard, say. See how they actually do against one (give the players some characters (array generated) and run a one-shot battle?

 

[mickdlee]

I'm surprised it hasnt come up yet but who's to say it would use its hands/claws to throw. The visual i have is that it would pick stuff up with its mouth and throw it or spit it quite some distance. Especially half-orc rangers.

 

[Stalker0]

Just looking at the stats and the like, while the Big T would be a challenge for a group of 20th level characters...maybe even a strong challenge, I don't see him being a +10 CR challenge.

This is the equivalent of a 10th level party fighting a CR20 monster....and I'm just not seeing that. CR 22, maybe 24. But 30? Big T is tough but there are way too many ways to get him for him to be the ultimate CR 30.

 

[KarinsDad]

Just looking at the stats and the like, while the Big T would be a challenge for a group of 20th level characters...maybe even a strong challenge, I don't see him being a +10 CR challenge.

This is the equivalent of a 10th level party fighting a CR20 monster....and I'm just not seeing that. CR 22, maybe 24. But 30? Big T is tough but there are way too many ways to get him for him to be the ultimate CR 30.

I think that the Frightful Presence is a big factor. With +19 to hit, it's going to hit a lot of PCs with nearly all 5 of its attacks. And once it grapples a foe with its bite, it will use its chomp after the very next PC's turn. Most bitten foes will be swallowed within a turn. Once that happens, it will start going from about 100 points of damage per turn to 150 points of damage per turn, and that will increase by 50 for each PC it swallows.

Granted, with summoned monsters and other indirect spells, PCs should be able to stay at range (and possibly flying). Melee though is really problematic. I don't see many 20th level PCs surviving melee if they get swallowed.

 

[jbear]

Here is your mistake. A lot of those people do not "come up" with things, they give the Tarrasque random extra abilities like ranged attacks because they want it to be more powerful than it is.
And even for the few plans left, the Tarrasque has Int 3. It won't come up with much and especially not very fast.

Honestly? I find your thinking very strange.

So, on your logic, if you were fighting an orc in a bar, the orc couldn't pick up a chair and smack a PC over the back of the head with it ... because they don't have a power in their stat block that specifies they have that ability.

First of all, rules are guidelines. Adding and changing things is a DMs perogative. And this perogative falls within the rules and the spirit of the game.

Secondly, monsters don't function in isolation. Why can you imagine a situation where the town has either stockpiled vials of acid, or where the tarrasque has somehow fallen into the perfect ambush with perfecly set up triangulated archers at teh maximum distance with clear line of sight, all with magical bows and a massive stockpile of magical arrows, but struggle to understand that the DM would have the CR30 threat behave in ways outside of what appears directly written in its stat block?

I am sure it has some vulnerabilities that would allow for clever PCs to have a chance of defeating it. But that does not take away from the fact that monsters are only as confined to their stat blocks as PCs are to their character sheets (There are certain defined powers within both, sure, but PCs can/should certainly not be limited and think outside of that, use the terrain etc. And so should monsters in that case).

Having 3 INT would, in my view, certainly limit the type of behaviour such a creature would come up with (as you point out). But it also has a wisdom of 11. I would imagine it is smart enough to figure out when it is seriously threatened by something it can't reach and not simply lay down and die.

For example, if it can't throw, why couldn't it smash a nearby building at you? It could easily use its tail to do that. I am sure that the shrapnel generated by such a creature would be fairly significant.

 

[Hapami]

Personally, I don't see a huge problem with the tarrasque knowing how to throw things. One of my dogs (not the bright one) figured out that throwing toys at the other dog got her attention for playing better than simply pawing at her. I don't see why the tarrasque, which, at least in previous editions, was always described as being very clever even if only animal intelligent, couldn't figure out to throw rocks and trees at things outside its reach if given a bit of time to do so.

I feel like several rounds of swatting at the insect above it dropping acid on its head would make it try to find ways to either a) leave the area and get away from the fly, or b) find some way to extend its reach and swat at it. Many animals use tools, and I don't see why the tarrasque wouldn't eventually learn to toss rocks after eons of eating various civilizations -- surely someone has used this trick before for it to learn from experience.

That said, the lack of a ranged attack is definitely a disadvantage, and one that should be made up for with either its environment or some allies backing it up. If you have enough things to keep you out of the tarrasque's reach (both claw and boulder), you should be able to find plenty of ways to kill it.

 

[SkidAce]

I thought the Tarrasque had a burrow speed. (lairs buried beneath the earth...?)

Maybe I'll review my old monster manuals after work.

 

[SilverfireSage]

Just looking at the stats and the like, while the Big T would be a challenge for a group of 20th level characters...maybe even a strong challenge, I don't see him being a +10 CR challenge.

This is the equivalent of a 10th level party fighting a CR20 monster....and I'm just not seeing that. CR 22, maybe 24. But 30? Big T is tough but there are way too many ways to get him for him to be the ultimate CR 30.

A six player party at 10th level can fight an Ancient Black dragon as a deadly encounter, but not insurmountable encounter. Just by the math, it does seem that the Tarrasque is around a 30, simply because of its armor class and sheer damage outdoes absolutely every other creature by a large margin.

 

[Leatherhead]

I think the main problem is the assumption that the Tarrasque is there to fight the players instead of eat the city.

Consider following this modus operandi:
1) eat city.
2) if city is not in range to be eaten, move full speed to nearest part of city that can be eaten.
3) stop to fight only if it cannot move.

I wonder how many city blocks and castles it could eat in 75 turns?

 

[KarinsDad]

I think the main problem is the assumption that the Tarrasque is there to fight the players instead of eat the city.

No, the assumption is that the PCs are there to fight the Tarrasque.