Very easy - but SO FREAKING HARD!

Lindeloef · Nov 25, 2014

MoutonRustique said:
[...]
through out the monster manuals, I have not found the defenses to be so "regulated" as you suggest. While the variance is not immense, there is enough of it (and it serves enough of a purpose) to be taken into account.
[...]

It really depends on what Monster Manuals you look at. What [MENTION=6689371]n00bdragon[/MENTION] said is mostly true about MM3 math. Sure there are sometimes variants (+/- 1) but nothing spectacularly different.

Tequila Sunrise · Nov 25, 2014

MoutonRustique said:
As to the matter of flat/i.e. unimproved defenses and attacks. I am quite torn at the moment on the subject. I am also of the school that likes the 10th level fighter to be "unassailable" by the 1st level "rookie". On the other hand, it leads to some situations which I'd wish to avoid at this time... I am very much enjoying some aspects of 5e (the flatter math being one of those), but there are so many other things that bother me that I can't seem to let 4e go. (And I don't like 5e's "vibe" - it's a very vague sort of dislike, but it's still pretty powerful.)

Personally, I have my cake and eat it too, using 4e's castes -- minion, goon*, standard, elite, and solo. So an 11th level NPC has a different caste -- and different attack/defense stats -- based on the PCs' level. To a low level party, that NPC is a 1st level solo; to a party near 6th level, he's a 6th level elite; when the party nears 11th level, he becomes an 11th level standard; and so on.

This might highlight the "Why bother with escalating attacks and defenses?" question for you, but I figure that if I'm already adjusting an NPC or monster's caste based on PC level -- which I absolutely do, because it makes NPCs sooo much smoother -- it doesn't hurt to adjust attack and defense numbers too. If anyone asks for an explanation, I tell them that the adjusted attacks and defenses represent how each combatant adjusts his/her focus to deal with relative skill levels. A greenhorn has to put all of his concentration into just landing a glancing blow and narrowly avoiding the deadly attacks of a veteran; while the veteran can fight a bit recklessly in order to one-shot the greenhorn when he does hit. Like a sort of automatic Power Attack mechanic.

Anyhow, good luck with your endeavor.

*My creation, and it's exactly what you think it is.

MoutonRustique · Nov 25, 2014

Lindeloef said:
It really depends on what Monster Manuals you look at. What [MENTION=6689371]n00bdragon[/MENTION] said is mostly true about MM3 math. Sure there are sometimes variants (+/- 1) but nothing spectacularly different.

Quite possible, but especially in the MV:TttNV (I love that thing so much) there are some pretty interesting variations to reinforce roles and feel - at least, that is what I've noted - but, you know, look at the sig...

Tequila Sunrise said:
Personally, I have my cake and eat it too, using 4e's castes -- minion, goon*, standard, elite, and solo. So an 11th level NPC has a different caste -- and different attack/defense stats -- based on the PCs' level. To a low level party, that NPC is a 1st level solo; to a party near 6th level, he's a 6th level elite; when the party nears 11th level, he becomes an 11th level standard; and so on.

That is a thing I really, really love about 4e - the sort of dual-scale to really have effective opposition but also representative of the heroes' progression!

I'm just in a phase where the "pointless-ness" of gear upgrades bother me. Actually, I think you just gave me an idea that might placate my itch with much less hassle... (Armour as DR! - as well as AC, but reduced variance, maybe... seems an interesting thread.)

Tequila Sunrise said:
This might highlight the "Why bother with escalating attacks and defenses?" question for you, but I figure that if I'm already adjusting an NPC or monster's caste based on PC level -- which I absolutely do, because it makes NPCs sooo much smoother -- it doesn't hurt to adjust attack and defense numbers too. If anyone asks for an explanation, I tell them that the adjusted attacks and defenses represent how each combatant adjusts his/her focus to deal with relative skill levels. A greenhorn has to put all of his concentration into just landing a glancing blow and narrowly avoiding the deadly attacks of a veteran; while the veteran can fight a bit recklessly in order to one-shot the greenhorn when he does hit. Like a sort of automatic Power Attack mechanic.

Anyhow, good luck with your endeavor.

*My creation, and it's exactly what you think it is.

That is a very good in-game rationale. It's not quite good enough to fool myself at present (I'm being obstinate), but it might do the trick after I've hit my head on this whole "reconstruct the game"-wall one time too many.

Thanks!

Scrivener of Doom · Nov 26, 2014

Tequila Sunrise said:
Personally, I have my cake and eat it too, using 4e's castes -- minion, goon*, standard, elite, and solo. So an 11th level NPC has a different caste -- and different attack/defense stats -- based on the PCs' level. To a low level party, that NPC is a 1st level solo; to a party near 6th level, he's a 6th level elite; when the party nears 11th level, he becomes an 11th level standard; and so on. (snip)

This is also what I do - with the exception of the goon caste, of course - and I couple it with reduced monster levels based on their 1E hit dice. It gives me a much better spread of monsters for the levels where our games are set and, as I have no demand for late-Paragon or Epic games in the future, it's something I expect to continue doing for the rest of my D&D future.