Questions About the Temple of Elemental Evil

[SirAntoine]

What comes to mind when you think of the Temple of Elemental Evil, originally published as adventure modules T1-4 for 1st Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, by TSR, Inc.? In my readings about it, I am confused because there seems to be a big elemental theme to it, as in elementals (the monsters) and princes of elemental evil called archomentals, but also more of "a place where evildoers of all kinds were gathering". As I see it, it has importance to the Greyhawk setting because it was like that. The good nations nearby had fought against the forces of evil there before, at the famous Battle of Emridy Meadows. If a new temple of elemental evil rises, would it be a stronghold of elementals and spell-casters focused on elemental magic, or was the point that it was "elemental" evil in the sense of being pure and at the foundation of all evildoers' designs? A gathering place for all bent on destruction to come and train and unite.

I would think that would appeal to Iuz, and his father, Graz'zt. Graz'zt dreams of uniting all the evil fiends of the Lower Planes in an assault on the Upper Planes, so maybe he or his son was thinking of something like that only for the Flanaess when they erected the temple. Sooner or later they may try again. I apologize if this is the wrong forum for this question.

 

[Wicht]

I've always thought it was intentionally a pun. Meaning it was always about the elements and it was always about pure, basic evil.

 

[Celebrim]

What comes to mind when you think of the Temple of Elemental Evil, originally published as adventure modules T1-4 for 1st Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, by TSR, Inc.?

Wasted opportunity.

There are a lot of bits of Gygaxian creativity to the module, but it's mostly just a large repetitive dungeon crawl that never develops its creative themes - 'elemental evil', the fungal demoness, etc. - as well as it should. It's not nearly as evocative in its descriptions as 'Forgotten Temple of Thardizun', and features far too much Gygaxian kitchen sink for the sake of kitchen sink. Gygax seems to be of the opinion that there is no limit to the number of times you can fight a large number of humanoid foes and it still be interesting.

I note that when Monte Cook tried to remake 'Temple of Elemental Evil', he tried to combine most of the best ideas from both. Unfortunately, he also tended to just create high minded hack and slash that tended to be more repetitive than it should be.

I've got a post around here somewhere about trying to expand on the themes there in and make the dungeon a true mini-campaign, that might be a good starting point for thinking about dealing with the text and improving on it. http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?334623-ToEE-Help-me-flesh-out-the-elemental-caverns!

In addition to making the nodes more interesting, you'll need to work on making the dungeon itself more interesting. I'd love to see more proactive inhabitants, more evocative locations, more hints and plot building, more diversity and history in the structure an so forth. When you do a mega-dungeon like this, it's the whole campaign, and the last thing you want is the whole campaign being a series of grinding combats that the players aren't necessarily invested in.

I'd also want to create reasons for the players to leave the temple and engage in some side quest to get items they need to advance in the main dungeon, similar to the very interesting structure used in 'The Whispering Cairn'.

 

[SirAntoine]

Wasted opportunity.

There are a lot of bits of Gygaxian creativity to the module, but it's mostly just a large repetitive dungeon crawl that never develops its creative themes - 'elemental evil', the fungal demoness, etc. - as well as it should. It's not nearly as evocative in its descriptions as 'Forgotten Temple of Thardizun', and features far too much Gygaxian kitchen sink for the sake of kitchen sink. Gygax seems to be of the opinion that there is no limit to the number of times you can fight a large number of humanoid foes and it still be interesting.

I note that when Monte Cook tried to remake 'Temple of Elemental Evil', he tried to combine most of the best ideas from both. Unfortunately, he also tended to just create high minded hack and slash that tended to be more repetitive than it should be.

I've got a post around here somewhere about trying to expand on the themes there in and make the dungeon a true mini-campaign, that might be a good starting point for thinking about dealing with the text and improving on it. http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?334623-ToEE-Help-me-flesh-out-the-elemental-caverns!

In addition to making the nodes more interesting, you'll need to work on making the dungeon itself more interesting. I'd love to see more proactive inhabitants, more evocative locations, more hints and plot building, more diversity and history in the structure an so forth. When you do a mega-dungeon like this, it's the whole campaign, and the last thing you want is the whole campaign being a series of grinding combats that the players aren't necessarily invested in.

I'd also want to create reasons for the players to leave the temple and engage in some side quest to get items they need to advance in the main dungeon, similar to the very interesting structure used in 'The Whispering Cairn'.

Thank you for this post and the link. I read the other thread, and I was most impressed with your ideas.