D&D 5E Moral Quandry Over Possible DM Failures?

[Kikuras]

I need to crowd-source some wisdom concerning table ethics.

I was invited to join a group for 5e hosted by my brother-in-law, a good friend of his would act as DM. Disappointed by the conceptualization of 4e, and tired of the crunchiness of 3.5, I was eager to play. Suffice it to say this was everyone's first go at 5e, so it was pretty well understood that we would have to learn a lot as we went along, including the DM. Anyway, we were a few sessions in when I started to suspect some fishy stuff. Orcs had higher ACs, and the DM was making up items, both mundane and magical. The deal was sealed when our party of 5 level-3 characters, and a level 2 were pitted against 7 ogres and a troll (and an undead assassin with a 22 AC for three rounds). We survived, barely, with 4 of the ogres fleeing... and each player waled away with 550 XP.

To add insult to injury, we had come across a treasure trove (inappropriate for our level), which contained about 16 magic items (very inappropriate considering the general attitude of magic items in 5e), some insanely powerful, some essentially pointless, none were really fitted for the party (my character walked away with 0/16 items due to lack of usefulness), and NONE came out of the DMG. I know he's running a 2e module, and perplexed by the array of magic items, I went to go see if they were legacy items, but they're not in the module either.

So what do I do? I like the DM, he spins a good yarn, and he runs the table well, but there's a distinct break from 5e rules that has got my panties in a bunch. Do I just bear it and hope he fixes it in the future? Do I surreptitiously drop hints to my brother-in-law that not is all well? Should I maybe pass a note at our next session? DMing isn't easy, I respect anyone who is going to take the time and effort to do it, and I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but made-up magic items that don't fit the party, short-changing XP, and multiple 'deadly' encounters seems like a bit much to deal with.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Sometimes for some people, they're guidelines not rules. Some DMs care more about "spinning a good yarn" and making sure the story is fun for the players to roleplay in, then they are getting game mechanics right. There is nothing wrong with that particular style of play.

However, many players don't actually like playing in that way. Some players care much more that the "game" aspect of D&D is run correctly, interactively, and evenly. Dice rolls are sacred, rules are played as written and "DM fiat" is not appreciated. And there's nothing wrong with that particular style of play either.

But in either case... you aren't going to get the DM to suddenly change the way he plays to match the way you prefer to play. It's not going to happen. And if you try, all that's going to result is a lot of arguments and hurt feelings. Which means you just have to ask yourself what is more important to you? Playing in this group because you want to get together with people and game... or playing D&D "the right way" (however you consider "the right way" to be.) If it's the latter, then just tell your brother-in-law that you just don't think you fit the type of game the DM is running and go on your way. And if it's the former... just embrace the chaos and play into it, as you might find letting go of your preconceived notions of what a "good" gaming experience is might get broadened a bit.

Good luck!

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Don't sweat the small stuff if you're having fun.

 

[KarinsDad]

I think you might want to consider talking to the DM. But, that's your call. DMs are sometimes strange beasts that do weird stuff and do not even know it. I played a single Champions game once (joined an existing group) and the DM spent 5 or 6 hours in two one turn encounters (which probably should have taken a half hour each). He spent a minute or two between each PC's or NPC's turn writing stuff down behind his screen. It was agonizingly slow, so on his blog, I suggested a few things (like dropping minions when they are down to a few Stun points) and suddenly, the rest of the players chimed in that the game was too slow and the DM got in a big huff and the game disintegrated. I felt bad about breaking up the game as that was not my intent. But the other players had been putting up with this excruciatingly slow game for a long time and had never mentioned it to the DM. So if you do talk to him, explain that you are not trying to wreck his game, but that you have some concerns. If he is reasonable, he'll listen. If he is not reasonable, you might want to sever ties with his game earlier rather than later anyway. There does appear to be an issue here for you.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Making stuff up is the very heart and soul of D&D. The idea that something is fundamentally "wrong" because this is happening is a concept that is too bizarre to contemplate.

 

[Paraxis]

Seems like you have different play styles, you might want to talk to him directly and have a conversation away from the gametable over a beer or some food. Express your desires, but understand that it is about having fun for everyone including the DM and most likely he won't change much but you never know.

Like any other issue communication and understanding are the keys to resolving things like this.

But be flexible, I am a stickler for rules and fair play myself although even I make up my own magic items and monsters regularly but I have played at tables with DM's like the one you talk about and had a blast, at the end of the night it is about the fun had so I go into games like that knowing what type of fun that is.

 

[MasterTrancer]

Would I be the DM, I would like that my players approached me and told there was something they didn't like; by the same token, though, it would be nice knowing that something has been especially appreciated.

Since I'm not your DM, I can't know but maybe the mismatching magic items are meant to come into play in the future?

BTW, welcome to these boards!

 

[neobolts]

Going "off rules" can be great with an experienced group looking for a change. I can see how it could be frustrating if your desire was to learn a new rule system and form an opinion about it. By all means, tell your DM that "learning 5e" is a big part of your motivations as a player.

Side thought: Don't "pass a note" during the game to raise concerns, however. That seems pretty tactless...have a casual two-way dialog with the DM outside of table time instead.

 

[Kikuras]

Good wisdom. And I'm not wholly against a little out-of-rules creativity, and I think can be quite necessary for good DMing, but it's quite clear that he's creating this stuff with no thought to how it might function within the 5e rule-set. He gave the level 3 wizard a magical book that lets him cast any spell, at any level at the cost of some dealing the wizard an increasing amount of damage, so our wizard technically has access to Wish. A dagger that does 1d10. A breastplate that is considered light armor, but gives the benefit of Full Plate (which he didn't fully describe until three weeks after we'd already given it to the fighter, because at the time ut was described as heavy armor). A spear that does double damage so long as it has access to magic (attuned to a spellcaster), but allowed to function from a ring so that the monk can use it. Granted some of that is cool, but the cool stuff I feel is out of balance for level 3.

I worry that other players might be affected more by the deviations, which could hurt the gaming attitude in the long-term. My barbarian is doing pretty good in the deadly encounter scenarios, but our magic users keep going down (the wizard dropped three times in the last battle, two of those almost insta-kills, the sorcerer went down twice). The cleric gets to do nothing but try and save the magic users, and the fighter is bored because she misses the creatures with the buffed ACs.

 

[painted_klown]

With the DM being new, perhaps he doesn't realize that the combats are too deadly and the magic items he gave you aren't what are needed at this point in the game.

It sounds like he was trying to be generous with the treasure, so that's not all bad, and is a sign that he's trying. Perhaps have a casual conversation outside of the game and ask him what he thinks of being a DM, ask him if the thinks it's difficult, etc. Basically ask him a lot of probing questions to see what he says.

It could simply be a lack of expereince and feeling overwhelmed. From what you've posted though, it sounds like he's trying to do his best.