D&D 5E Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning

[Mistwell]

That's the thing ... If I leave, I won't come back.

OK. Then you won't come back. But, hopefully you will be happier for it.

But when I finally stopped playing Pathfinder, I stopped buying their hard covers...Maybe if I had gotten into a campaign that was focused in Pathfinder's campaign setting, I would have gone back to buying their material. But now that I have stopped playing, it is less likely that I will pick up the game again.

OK, so you sound like the kind of guy who jumps games regardless of what's going on. A lot of books (PF)? You still leave for the new game, eventually. Too few books (5e and 13th Age)? You still leave for the new game, eventually. OK, fair enough. You're a bit of a flibbertigibbet. That's fine - some of my favorite people are never satisfied for long. I am sure some new game will come along that will gain your interest again (like maybe N.E.W. and O.L.D. and N.O.W.? They look great).

And if you're asking "are there other impatient people who tend to jump from game to game as the new game comes out?" I am sure the answer is yes. Are you looking for comfort in numbers?

 

[dmccoy1693]

Dude. We get it. You're impatient. You've been banging this drum for two years now. You want an OGL, and you want in now. Wizards has said that they'll have some more information in "early 2015." Patience, please.

The quote you cited references a meeting in 2012. And even then, while I was excited, I was cautious in my optimism. I knew then that "2 years was a long time to wait and things could change." Well, we're at 2-1/2 years now from that meeting and 3 years from the annnouncement and I have not seen the "early 2015" quote officially from Wizard you are referencing. Could you point me to it?

Also, I would not describe waiting for 3 years as impatient. I would call that very patient.

 

[Gecko85]

For comparison, here's the release schedule of the original BECMI and AD&D:

1977:

1. Basic Set (Holmes)
2. Monster Manual

1978:

1. Player's Handbook
2. B1 In Search of the Unknown (Included in Basic Set, starting with 4th printing)
3. D1 Descent Into the Depths of the Earth
4. D2 Shrine of the Kuo-Toa
5. D3 Vault of the Drow
6. S1 Tomb of Horrors
7. G1 Steadying of the Hill Giant Chief
8. G2 The Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl
9. G3 Hall of the Fire Giant King

Note: The D and G series were essentially super modules (and would later be repackaged as such and sold together, ex: "Against the Giants"). These are analogous to Hoard of the Dragon Queen + Rise of Tiamat and the upcoming Elemental Evil adventure paths. So, in year 2, we have one core book (2nd of 3...we'd have to wait another year for the DMG), a module included with the Basic Set (analogous to Lost Mines of Phandelver), a stand-alone module (Tomb of Horrors) and two "adventure path" series.

1979:

1. DM Guide
2. B2 Keep on the Borderlands (Included in Basic Set, starting with 6th printing)
3. S2 White Plume Mountain
4. T1 The Village of Hommlet

Note: Keep on the Borderlands replaces In Search of the Unknown in the Basic Set.

1980:

1. Deities & Demigods
2. C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness
3. S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks
4. Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits
5. A1 Slave Pits of the Undercity

1981:

1. Basic Set (Moldvay)
2. Feind Folio
3. Expert Set
4. A2 Secret of the Slavers Stockade
5. A3 Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords
6. A4 In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords
7. B3 Palace of the Silver Princess

Note: Basic Set is re-written, and Expert Set released. Conclusion of the A series that was started the year before. This, too, would later be repacked and sold as a single Super Module.

1982:

1. B4 The Lost City
2. S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth

So, I'd say the first year+ of 5e is matching up quite favorably as far as release schedule goes.

 

[dmccoy1693]

OK, so you sound like the kind of guy who jumps games regardless of what's going on.

Actually no, I'm not. I stopped being excited by the base 3.5 system some time ago. Pathfinder renewed that and I stayed with it. Then Kingmaker got me excited and I ran that one. Carrion Crown was ok, but I could tell my enthusiasm had waned. Then there was a long dry spell of Paizo campaigns that didn't excite me. That dry spell continues to this day. I stopped buying Pathfinder books (except for the RPG line) after that. From there I made much better use of my fellow Pathfinder Compatible publishers material. But 5e excited me. So I jumped ship.

And if you're asking "are there other impatient people who tend to jump from game to game" I am sure the answer is yes. Are you looking for comfort in numbers?

Actually, I would not call myself impatient. Waiting for 3 years is hardly impatient. Do I want to go somewhere else, no. But I will if something does not change. So I am talking about it in the hopes that something will change.

 

[Bluenose]

Right. Because five hardcover books in six months is a slow release cycle. Gotcha.

That got me thinking, what companies are publishing more than that for any of their games? Paizo, of course. FFG for Star Wars. Mongoose for Traveller and Legend. Cubicle 7 with Doctor Who. Not all hardbacks, mind you.

 

[Nefzyflin]

The quote you cited references a meeting in 2012. And even then, while I was excited, I was cautious in my optimism. I knew then that "2 years was a long time to wait and things could change." Well, we're at 2-1/2 years now and I have not seen the "early 2015" quote officially from Wizard you are referencing. Could you point me to it?

I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like you simply do not like the 5e system. If you did, you would play that system, regardless of coming content. 5e is my favorite system to date. I like how the game flows smoothly at the table. And so I play it.

I also like BECMI and Labyrinth Lord. Should I quit playing those systems? I mean there isn't much coming down the pipe for them.

I guess I should quit them.

Nef

 

[Mistwell]

Actually no, I'm not. I stopped being excited by the base 3.5 system some time ago. Pathfinder renewed that and I stayed with it. Then Kingmaker got me excited and I ran that one. Carrion Crown was ok, but I could tell my enthusiasm had waned. Then there was a long dry spell of Paizo campaigns that didn't excite me. That dry spell continues to this day. I stopped buying Pathfinder books (except for the RPG line) after that. From there I made much better use of my fellow Pathfinder Compatible publishers material. But 5e excited me. So I jumped ship.

OK, so you sound like the kind of guy who jumps games regardless of what's going on. I am curious why you thought that was disagreement. What you just outlined is a series of games you lost interest in and jumped from, for various reasons. And we can add 13th Age to that, which you mentioned earlier. I bet you tried 4e at some time as well. But, there appears to always be some reason, eventually, that you jump ship for the new game. I am not judging it, and I am not sure why you said you do not do that and then went on to repeat how you do that.

Actually, I would not call myself impatient. Waiting for 3 years is hardly impatient. Do I want to go somewhere else, no. But I will if something does not change. So I am talking about it in the hopes that something will change.

Well I am sorry if you felt the term "impatient" was a negative. I meant to say your patience level, however you might describe it, appears to have lower tolerance levels than mine. I am sympathizing, while noting you tend to jump games, and trying to figure out where you're going with this.

Are you saying by you raising this issue, you hope that will cause WOTC to publish more stuff, faster? If so, I think you probably would be happier just moving on (again, I recommend N.E.W. and O.L.D. ). WOTC isn't going to change their release schedule, whatever that release schedule might be, as a result of you talking about the issue more here at EW. I don't think they even read EW. Best you can get here is some comfort in like-minded comments.

 

[ceiling90]

I think the lack of OGL or anything like a licence is killing the game for me. Because, I'm a pretty solid advocate for Sci-fi, and inherent rules changes to reflect the genre and paradigm switch in the game - all of which can't happen* unless there's something like it out there to field some pretty solid companies from selling these products (looking at you Dias Ex Machina). It also technically stops anyone from creating third party adventures, short, long, epic, to be made and sold**.

So those are my two large beefs with this product stagnation, versus product control. We no longer live in the high time of the OGL, and we are a net savvy group of people and pretty much innovators in what is arguably a cottage industry. While many of us are constantly dreaming up stuff, many, many more prefer that they could just pick up something and go. Not having either option sucks.

* I could and I am homebrewing an entire setting, but you know for those that don't want to do that, but don't want to leave the 5e or the new streamlined d20 game architecture that's a very difficult and time consuming endeavor.

** I have yet to figure out how some of the third party adventures are actually, ahem, sold legally that isn't "pay what you want" or isn't already borderline system agnostic. I feel that if you were make a complete adventure, with your own customized monsters, even with proper documentation and reference, WotC could and probably will ask that you stop selling it at any moment. Quite frankly, how did Frog God Games get that Fiend Folio out without resorting to some arcane referential to the OGL? Does just hint that it's compatible with 5th?

 

[Gecko85]

Ok, I did the BECMI and AD&D release schedule. Here's what we have so far for 5e (not counting things like minis, DM screens, etc...just books and adventure modules).

2013:

1. Murder in Baldur's Gate
2. Vault of the Dracolich

2014:

1. Basic rules (both player and DM, free)
2. Starter Set (includes Lost Mines of Phandelver adventure)
3. Player's Handbook
4. Monster Manual
5. Hoard of the Dragon Queen
6. Rise of Tiamat
7. Dreams of the Red Wizards: Dead in Thay
8. Dreams of the Red Wizards: Scourge of the Sword Coast
9. Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle

2015:

1. DM Guide
2. Princes of the Apocalypse (April)
3. ???

Note: They've hinted at more coming, but no official announcements yet. Then again, it's only February...

 

[Blackbrrd]

Why is it Zen-like? The less Indiana Jones we got, the better the movies were. The less Star Wars movies we got, the better the movies were. Sometimes spamming sequels makes the originals feel less desirable

On a more serious note, I can honestly say the amount of Pathfinder material out there makes all of Pathfinder less desirable to me. Because I know each release has it's fans, some of my players may like this or that or buy various things, I know I will have to negotiate about it, I will have to account for it when I create adventures, and constantly tweak things to continue to keep up, and it just seems like a total turn-off to me. If it was just the core books and a few other books, that would not be happening. But sometimes you cross a line from helpful to hindrance with increased amounts of materials. Right now, I am quite satisfied with just the core books. In fact, the number of variants in the DMG is a bit overwhelming still. I need a lot more time to work with all of what I already have.

I feel this is true - in a way. There can be too many rule books and rule supplements. On the other hand, there can't be too many adventures, campaign settings or supplements on how to build a campaign. I am very much relieved that the 5e rules still only consists of three books. They could add another MM without seeing me complain though.