D&D 5E Are DMs getting lazy?

Nothing has changed between 1st edition and 5th edition in terms of DMs. You didn't hear any of this before because in 1st through 3rd edition Dungeon and Dragon existed to give time-limited and imagination-limited players regular content to play. You're hearing it now because Dungeon and Dragon do not exist, and the Ebook penetration is reportedly at about 20% at the end of 2014, so it's likely 80% of WOTC's market counts digital Dungeon and Dragon as no Dungeon and Dragon.

As I said previously, doing digital only Dungeon and Dragon was the worst possible decision WOTC could make and stood a very real chance of handing Paizo the market permanently. This is why.

(As far as 4th edition content goes, given what I've read about 4th edition adventures, it's likely they'd long since driven out people who wanted pre-written adventures very early on with the quality that I understand was really bad from 4th edition player's posts here)

4E dungeon was also abyssmal. Dungeon reached a peak not reached since the early 1E Dungeon under Paizo and the early 4E adventures were really really bad in Dungeon. I have them on PDF through to Dec 2011 and they are even all but useless to mine for ideas and maps. The maps as such are like some kid stapled together dungeon tiles or something.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Part of the problem is a heightened impression of official content. As many as 9 out of 10 of the adventures you could buy over the years could easily be exceeded by most of what your own DM could do if they wrote their own.

Another part of the problem is too fast level advancement. It should take something like 100 good fights to advance in level, and we haven't seen that.
 

Interesting question!

Many posters have made a number of great posts. I agree with a lot of what is being said.

To use a personal example - I put a lot more time in creating adventures than I did years ago when I played OD&D. I'm not sure if I would enjoy the game as much if I didn't. Making maps, preparing props, sketching out adventure hooks, etc. are all things I enjoy. When I do those things I don't feel like I have "wasted" time, like I do when I watch TV or play a video game. BTW - I have nothing against those type of entertainments - that's just my personal feelings. What takes real effort for me these days is not the prep, but getting times when I can get friends together to play. I'm fortunate to have a great group right now, but that's the tough part for me.

I have four children. My third child really likes to run D&D. The version he runs most often is Labyrinth Lord and for an 11-year-old kid, he does an awesome job. He really wants to just run the game though. He wants modules. He really is not all that interested in creating adventures - I think in part because he is concerned about game balance issues.

My fourth child likes to run D&D too. He is 9 and nominally runs under the Labyrinth Lord system too. He is the opposite of child three. He loves creating new races, new monsters, new adventures, new magic items, etc. He ran a couple of weeks ago and for the first time ever we ran into a "stock" monster in one of his adventures. His adventures are outrageous, zany, and full of surprises and completely unbalanced. He frequently runs adventures off the cuff just to get the party to face a monster he has recently created. The creation process is by far his favorite part of the hobby. He has ZERO interest is pre-made modules.

My oldest plays only. He is 15 and if there is new video game in the house it is tough to get him to play. He loves to read fantasy fiction and watch fantasy-themed shows and movies, but he hates to write. He tried to run some D&D, but gave up on it very quickly. Interestingly, he has far less patience for pen and paper rpgs than the two younger boys. He likes board games and usually will play, particularly is I am running, but he bores easily.

Child three is my daughter who is 13. She decided last year she did not like D&D. She loves drama, she loves writing, she loves to read fantasy and science fiction, and she is very creative. My sense is that she decided that teenage girls just do not play D&D. It's a little sad, but she is crazy busy with other stuff and the game will always be there when she gets older.

For me, since the adventure making process takes a long time, I appreciate having modules to fill in times when my stuff is not ready. I can run sandbox style or even completely off the cuff. My players seem to enjoy it, but it is a less satisfying experience for me.
 

I don't know if modules really save time. IME, a module is just a springboard for a session seeing as how no DM's plan survives contact with the PCs. Not to say that dishing out a module's content strictly by the numbers is badwrongfun but it's hardly an exercise in what remains the unique province of table top roleplaying, i.e., actual player freedom. For me, a module is mostly a setting. It provides me with locations and a sense of what kind of threats and resources characterize them; i.e., campaign- (as opposed to session- or even encounter-) level information. Everything else would surely take as much or little prep time as one needs without a module.

Having said that, I do recognize there is more than a little utility in preping for a published encounter ... if the published encounter is actually characterful. Thinking up a good set-piece fight is not super easy, which is why script writers and even game designers get paid to do it. The problem is, just like there is a lot of schlock in movies I can't say many published encounters are super memorable. Published encounters had far more utility in 4E (for example), where "balance" was a much more precise thing.
 

This is a fair point. But I think he still has a point because "back in the day" they were vastly more common. The expectation of a more rich experience is common now, even if pure dungeon crawls are still perfection to some.

Yup. There are far fewer people now who want dungeon crawls with a bit of framing story.

That seems to be quite a broad assessment and hardly universal.

Agreed. If made up on the fly is garbage then the problem exists round the table. On the other hand most of the RPGs I know that really facilitate improv also run to short (half a dozen session) campaigns because remembering more than that is ... challenging.

Nothing has changed between 1st edition and 5th edition in terms of DMs. You didn't hear any of this before because in 1st through 3rd edition Dungeon and Dragon existed to give time-limited and imagination-limited players regular content to play. You're hearing it now because Dungeon and Dragon do not exist, and the Ebook penetration is reportedly at about 20% at the end of 2014, so it's likely 80% of WOTC's market counts digital Dungeon and Dragon as no Dungeon and Dragon.

Yup. I don't think any version of D&D has had this little in the way of published adventures since about 1977 (with five issues of The Strategic Review and a few of Dragon behind it).

(As far as 4th edition content goes, given what I've read about 4th edition adventures, it's likely they'd long since driven out people who wanted pre-written adventures very early on with the quality that I understand was really bad from 4th edition player's posts here)

Definitely! There are a couple of gems in early 4e Dragon, but they are few and far between. HS1: The Slaying Stone has an excellent reputation among 4e fans not because it is good, but because it, unlike most adventures, reaches the level of adequate.

On the other hand, 4e is probably the easiest version of D&D to improv with at the table, and a little preparation goes a long way. Ridiculous PC Plans? Play them through as a skill challenge - used properly (and yes the guidance is bad) they are an amazing improv tool. If the PCs start a fight you didn't expect? Pull something out of the MM. There won't be any cross-referencing needed (there's none of this "Casts like a third level sorcerer - check another book for the spells" nonsense, let alone them expecting you to remember subtypes or the trample rules and giving the monster six different feats for you to have to know). And the monsters themselves will take about half an hour to put down so the few seconds you spent finding the right pages in the MM are trivial by comparison.

I don't know if modules really save time. IME, a module is just a springboard for a session seeing as how no DM's plan survives contact with the PCs. Not to say that dishing out a module's content strictly by the numbers is badwrongfun but it's hardly an exercise in what remains the unique province of table top roleplaying, i.e., actual player freedom. For me, a module is mostly a setting. It provides me with locations and a sense of what kind of threats and resources characterize them; i.e., campaign- (as opposed to session- or even encounter-) level information. Everything else would surely take as much or little prep time as one needs without a module.

This works until you hit the adventure path - at which point you need to stay roughly in line with the story.

Having said that, I do recognize there is more than a little utility in preping for a published encounter ... if the published encounter is actually characterful. Thinking up a good set-piece fight is not super easy, which is why script writers and even game designers get paid to do it. The problem is, just like there is a lot of schlock in movies I can't say many published encounters are super memorable. Published encounters had far more utility in 4E (for example), where "balance" was a much more precise thing.

Actually balance being more of a thing means that published encounters had less utility because it was so much easier to get right rather than being a cake walk or crushing the PCs. Where published encounters helped (but nothing like as much as they should have) is that with all the forced movement in (pre-Essentials) 4e terrain was a much bigger thing than it was in other editions. Pushing monsters into their own pit traps or back through their own portals was SOP - and flat featureless rooms were singularly boring areas to fight in. A pit trap wasn't a no go square on the battlefield so much as it was a focus for the combat.
 

I'm a high school teacher so I'm going to make a teaching analogy. Before I have a plan for the week, I feel nervous and uneasy. Then, I make my plans and I feel less uneasy and nervous. During the week, I modify plans as I teach depending on student performance. To me, the most difficult part is the planning. Sometimes I borrow ideas and pull from existing material to get my plan ready. That's usually easier than inventing everything. Sometimes I do invent everything. That usually takes longer and is sometimes less certain to work because it is untested. This is pretty much how I prep for d&d too. The professional adventures ground me and give me a foundation an often just using one relieves the anxiety of planning.
 



I get the impression that SirAntoine wants to play a game that D&D has never been.

Actually there's more history to it than you'd think. A goblin was worth 15XP in oD&D and AD&D IIRC, and the XP to reach second level was around 2000 (depending on your class). Killing, in early editions, especially at low level was not a good source of XP.

That said, this is based on a misunderstanding of XP. The rule in D&D was originally 1GP = 1XP. Killing was secondary to looting, and in practice, you levelled about as fast in published AD&D as you did in 3.X. (The 1GP for 1XP rule was to encourage smart play and looting rather than killing - stealing the treasure while leaving the orcs looking like suckers is more fun than just killing them). Once you take away the 1GP = 1XP rule in AD&D then levelling does indeed become painfully slow and the pace [MENTION=6731904]SirAntoine[/MENTION] is proposing. This was, however, neither the default for any edition nor intended by any designer.
 

Actually there's more history to it than you'd think. A goblin was worth 15XP in oD&D and AD&D IIRC, and the XP to reach second level was around 2000 (depending on your class). Killing, in early editions, especially at low level was not a good source of XP.

That said, this is based on a misunderstanding of XP. The rule in D&D was originally 1GP = 1XP. Killing was secondary to looting, and in practice, you levelled about as fast in published AD&D as you did in 3.X. (The 1GP for 1XP rule was to encourage smart play and looting rather than killing - stealing the treasure while leaving the orcs looking like suckers is more fun than just killing them). Once you take away the 1GP = 1XP rule in AD&D then levelling does indeed become painfully slow and the pace [MENTION=6731904]SirAntoine[/MENTION] is proposing. This was, however, neither the default for any edition nor intended by any designer.


I get that, but I don't even understand the desire to make leveling painfully slow anyway. But I do understand that too many people focus on "the next level" instead of furthering story or the adventure or all the other stuff that goes into the game. But painfully slow leveling doesn't make people not focus on the next level, it just makes people who like to focus on it uninterested in playing. I suppose there's some desire to purge the hobby of people who play in a way you don't like but that's just a disreputable attitude.
 

Remove ads

Top