D&D 5E A Board Game style Release Schedule

[HobbitFan]

One thing I would say about this whole thing is that WOTC should get credit for what they actually put out.
If another company puts out great adventures but WOTC has nothing to do with and they aren't actually stated for 5E then you have to convert. WOTC doesn't get points for that one. That doesn't count as an area WOTC supports the game in.

The point is I think to get to the bottom of how well we think WOTC is supporting the game and wether the model we can discern they might be using will work.
What other companies are doing if its not initiated by WOTC or licensed is besides the point really.
We're talking about what WOTC is doing or not doing.

For instance, I question the wisdom of having the only shorter length adventures they release as support only be available to Adventureer's League DMs. That's not cool at all for all the home game people. If you want to make those excusive adventures unique to the League play that's fine but also provide adventures for regular DMs too.

I really don't like that they put all their eggs in one basket with the hardback adventure paths.
I don't like that htye are ignoring the novels.
I don't like that they are (largely ) ignoring their campaign settings.
I don't like that they aren't talking to fans about what's coming up next.

I love the 5E core books and the designers seem like great people when they talk about he game. They seem to love D&D.
I don't see the love translated into inspirational, imaginative exciting RPG products yet.
That's how you support an RPG by inspiring DMs and players to create cool stries, adventures charactersm etc.
Releasing a board game so WOTc can cash in and make some money doesn't support the RPG at all.
That's what D&D is...it's an rpg. Before you can talk about expanding the brand or opening new markets you gotta support the core of what you are.
I'm not sure they are doing that. And I don't know whether its by accident or design.

That's the real meat and potatoes of this whol topic I think. Is WOTC doing what they need to to support the RPG? They demonstratively did not in 4E and floundered. Have they found their way again? That's what we'll all trying to figure out by puzzing their release schedule and edition plan out. It seems to me...

 

[Mistwell]

Because the OP is about WoTC releases not OGL ones perhaps?

I am addressing the goal expressed in the OP. It's a relevant aspect of this. If I were to say to you "I am bothered I don't have much choice in spells, but I only want to talk about three spells." Wouldn't you respond "Well there are hundreds of spells, how do we not mention that when talking about frustration with number of spells?" I would. The issue he raised is "stuff to play 5e with". It's relevant to that, that there are 64 adventures published to play 5e with. There is no magic about WOTC approving it or not. Or, if there is, I am waiting to hear what that special thing might be. It's a fairly meaningless artificial limitation on the discussion.

 

[Mistwell]

One thing I would say about this whole thing is that WOTC should get credit for what they actually put out.
If another company puts out great adventures but WOTC has nothing to do with and they aren't actually stated for 5E then you have to convert. WOTC doesn't get points for that one. That doesn't count as an area WOTC supports the game in.

Why are you counting points for a company? I thought this is about fun stuff to play the game with?

 

[HobbitFan]

Why are you counting points for a company? I thought this is about fun stuff to play the game with?

The real gist of what I was trying to say is further down the paragraph. Keep reading.

 

[Kramodlog]

It's not for another edition.

I didn't say it was.

You don't need to "convert" them like you'd need to convert them from a prior edition.

Nice touch with the quotation mark, but you're contradicting yourself. When conversion notes are released, when you need to convert a product, you're outside the current edition.

It's about equivalent to the transitional adventures Paizo was publishing for Pathfinder before all the Pathfinder rules had come out and just after. Lots of people in this very thread have claimed those adventures were part of the first 90 days support for Pathfinder, but all of a sudden equivalent WOTC adventures don't count?

I'm not those people.

I see an awful lot of people trying to define away any criticism of their argument as "doesn't count" for fairly trivial and arbitrary reasons. And I count the "playtest professionally published adventures which are still for sale" being dismissed as a trivial and arbitrary dismissal.

I find this ironic. Saying 5e has only been out for 3 months is very arbitrary. 5e has been out since July. Far more than three months. It seems your arbitrary line has been made to defend the lack of support more than to reflect the actual release of 5e. Can I prove it? Well no, sadly I lost my telepathic powers in Nam. But it is obvious. And ironic.

 

[Jester David]

I am trying to count stuff published by Paizo, for Pathfinder, in the three months between the publication of the Beastiary (the last core book) and that three month mark. It's hard to count "transition" stuff as that was mostly for 3.5e rather than Pathfinder. It's similar though...I guess a list of what was published several months before the Beastiary would help as well, sort of like the D&D Next adventures help as it relates to 5e that was to come.

Looking at the date of the first review on the Paizo site is often a good clue.

They were releasing 64-page campaign books every 2-3 months at that time and 32-page player companions every other month. Plus the APs and *maybe* a module. As much as 160-odd pages plus the APs and as little as 120-odd. And they *might* have done a smaller adventure module during that time (back when they were still doing small adventures.)

Those were still mostly fluff. They were still doing the race books at that time (if I had to guess I'd say Gnomes of Golarion or Sargava the Lost Colony), so there were 2-6 pages of mechanics in the 32-page book. And the Campaign setting books were likely a Monsters Revisited book (the mechanics really being a half-dozen NPCs) or a guide to a region.

 

[Kramodlog]

It is like people are talking pass each other in this thread.

-WotC needs to release more stuff!
-WotC does. In away. There are all these 3pp releases!
-If they are 3pp, they aren't WotC. I want WotC stuff.
-I told you, it does. Look at all those 3pp products.
-They aren't even officially approved or sanctioned by WotC.
-So?
-It is not WotC stuff.
-Sure it is. Free your mind, man. Boundries are artificial, man. Tear down that wall, Mr. Gorbachev!

 

[Jester David]

For instance, I question the wisdom of having the only shorter length adventures they release as support only be available to Adventureer's League DMs. That's not cool at all for all the home game people. If you want to make those exclusive adventures unique to the League play that's fine but also provide adventures for regular DMs too.

Hopefully, after they've been cycled through stores, they'll be released on DnDClassics.

I really don't like that they put all their eggs in one basket with the hardback adventure paths.
I don't like that hey are ignoring the novels.
I don't like that they are (largely ) ignoring their campaign settings.
I don't like that they aren't talking to fans about what's coming up next.

They're no longer putting all their eggs in one basket by focusing all of their products on just the RPG, and spreading out into mini games, board games, comics, video games, dice games, etc. They're really focusing elsewhere.

The novels also aren't being ignored. There were six or seven released last year.

It remains to be seen if they're ignoring campaign settings. Easy money says we see one in the next year. They just don't have the staff to do a campaign setting AND the core rulebooks for the same quarter. And there's no way they're outsourcing that book.

I'm also frustrated that they're not talking. But I can understand why. I do think they've moved from announcing products too far in advance to being far too silent.

I love the 5E core books and the designers seem like great people when they talk about he game. They seem to love D&D.
I don't see the love translated into inspirational, imaginative exciting RPG products yet.
That's how you support an RPG by inspiring DMs and players to create cool stories, adventures characters etc.
Releasing a board game so WOTc can cash in and make some money doesn't support the RPG at all.
That's what D&D is...it's an rpg. Before you can talk about expanding the brand or opening new markets you gotta support the core of what you are.
I'm not sure they are doing that. And I don't know whether its by accident or design.

That's the real meat and potatoes of this whol topic I think. Is WOTC doing what they need to to support the RPG? They demonstratively did not in 4E and floundered. Have they found their way again? That's what we'll all trying to figure out by puzzing their release schedule and edition plan out. It seems to me..

D&D is a brand centered around an RPG, in the same way that the Marvel Universe is a brand centred around comics. D&D hasn't beeing *just* the RPG in a long, long time. For example, there was the cartoon and the movies and so many other products.

4e really focused on the RPG. It made that the core of the brand. They had the monthly books and DDI for regular revenue and the minis and the tiles and the Fortune Cards and lots of extra little things all focused on the one experience of playing the RPG. Which meant that if the RPG players were not interesting one month, or reached saturation, that the entire brand struggled. By spreading out the product, less money is riding on the fortunes of one audience.
The board game isn't meant to support the RPG. It has nothing to do with the RPG. It's meant to support the brand and the larger D&D name.

 

[Jester David]

It is like people are talking pass each other in this thread.

-WotC needs to release more stuff!
-WotC does. In away. There are all these 3pp releases!
-If they are 3pp, they aren't WotC. I want WotC stuff.
-I told you, it does. Look at all those 3pp products.
-They aren't even officially approved or sanctioned by WotC.
-So?
-It is not WotC stuff.
-Sure it is. Free your mind, man. Boundries are artificial, man. Tear down that wall, Mr. Gorbachev!

More like:

-WotC needs to release more stuff!
-Why?
-Because I want more stuff for my game.
-What about (Expeditions/ 3PP/ online articles/ fan content).
-That doesn't count because it's (not 100% available/ not 100% official/ not what I want/ not available in stores)

I honestly don't think it matters any more. WotC could publish monthly short adventures and the posters would complain that the content wasn't detailed enough. Then WotC could post large campaign accessories and they'd complain there wasn't enough mechanics. WotC could release monthly splatbooks again and they'd complain it didn't focus on the races or builds they really wanted.
Despite 160-pages of player content every other month and monthly articles on classes, people still regularly complained during 4e. Illusionist and cold-using wizards were favoured and not other builds, or there wasn't a Con/Int race, or a class that hit off Con, etc. There were endless complaints that releases never quite hit the Goldilocks zone by appealing to everyone.

 

[Kramodlog]

More like:

-WotC needs to release more stuff!
-Why?
-Because I want more stuff for my game.
-What about (Expeditions/ 3PP/ online articles/ fan content).
-That doesn't count because it's (not 100% available/ not 100% official/ not what I want/ not available in stores)

Seems closer to a strawmand than anything else. People want the D&D seal on the products they want to buy, the same seal WotC fights (with C&Ds) to keep. It is a question of trust and brand loyalty. It is perfectly valid to not be interested by 3pp stuff. Like some people will not drink anything else but Coke.

-I want a Coke.
-Have a Pepsi.
-It is not Coke.
-It is brown water with sugar and caffeine.
-But not Coke.
-It is the same!
-Not the same taste.
-You're being irrational.
-Soft drinks make us fat, melt our teeth and who knows what. Rationality doesn't matter.

I honestly don't think it matters any more. WotC could publish monthly short adventures and the posters would complain that the content wasn't detailed enough. Then WotC could post large campaign accessories and they'd complain there wasn't enough mechanics. WotC could release monthly splatbooks again and they'd complain it didn't focus on the races or builds they really wanted.
Despite 160-pages of player content every other month and monthly articles on classes, people still regularly complained during 4e. Illusionist and cold-using wizards were favoured and not other builds, or there wasn't a Con/Int race, or a class that hit off Con, etc. There were endless complaints that releases never quite hit the Goldilocks zone by appealing to everyone.

I'm tired of people saying that people always complain and are not satisfied. Critics are legitimate. Especially the ones about the lack of support WotC is offering its RPG. It is completely accurate. The RPG line is not supported and the future doesn't look positive for it. Maybe in a year it will look better, but not now.

If you didn't want to read those critics, you shouldn't of started a thread that you knew would draw them. Seriously. I thought this subject was dead until late April. You know, after PoA is released and WotC still doesn't announce any up coming products.